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Downtown needs a big idea to grow: Professor Robinson

Apologies to Reality for the misunderstanding. Sour mood + misinterpretation equals my reply. Sorry. All this makes me wonder just how long it''s going to be before we see another call center pop up in...

Posted by: Cliff_1

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Mar 01, 2009

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Posted by Sudbury Northern Life Reporter Bill Bradley 

Participants at the Downtown Sudbury annual general meeting were treated to a big idea Friday morning, a huge what if question.

Sudbury Video News - Imagine light rail transit downtown Sudbury What if the downtown was free to develop the rail lands that divide the downtown area, reducing its current value? asked Laurentian University economics professor David Robinson. He is part of a community group called Imagine which is seeking a bold way of reversing decline in the downtown area by seeking to remove most of the railway yards, yet leaving the rail line itself.

"What if the city applied its world renowned re-greening expertise to the urban landscape?" he asked.

Robinson said what is happening in the world is that bigger cities are getting bigger at the expense of smaller cities under 100,000 in population. Greater Sudbury, with a population of 160,000, is at the tipping point of either declining, or, growing into a much bigger city than at present.

For Greater Sudbury to become truly greater it has to grow, he noted. Those are where trends are taking cities, he emphasized.
"But what does it take to move the city to the next level? We need many more people in the downtown. We need 20,000 more people in the downtown not 500 as is being discussed now through small scale developments. We need a vibrant downtown."

Otherwise, the downtown will continue to turn itself into a suburban style area with many parking lots to service a few struggling businesses, said Robinson.
"We all know the downtown is struggling. Just look at the empty spaces where buildings once rose. They are parking lots now."

He said that Sudbury born world renowned thinker, Bruce Mau, had told the Imagine group that the only way to transform the city was "by thinking bigger, globally with a signature project big enough to attract world attention."

Robinson said the biggest unused asset the city has is the rail lands.
"It is getting in the way of the development of the downtown. People make value. The rail lands are stifling that. The two do not mix," he said.

"If we take out the freight and the yards but leave the tracks, we will recover a right of way right to the lake. A huge flat area in the city, its true basin, will be made available for development. That will have a tremendous impact on the value and use of all surrounding lands," said Robinson.

Who could spearhead the proposal?
Robinson said only the Downtown Sudbury group, an association of property owners, had the political clout to run with the idea.
"You have the clout, the vested interest in making it happen. My group, Imagine, has the ideas. Bruce Mau has the inspiration. We need you to run with this to the political class," he stated.

During a question period Robinson was asked if any preliminary discussions had been made with the railway company.
Robinson replied that the owners know the property has a low value as a railway asset.
"But there needs to be more people involved to push this. We need political will. We also need some design here, to draw a picture of what it could look like," he said.

Where would the money come from?
Robinson said despite the recession, there is money out there in the world looking for a world class project.
"The Koreans have money. So do others. Make it attractive enough and they may be interested. But you have to follow what Bruce Mau said. Think big. Think globally. This asset, the railways lands, is the best unused asset of its kind in Northern Ontario. Just imagine what could be done with it."

Downtown Sudbury can be reached at 674-5115 or visit www.downtownsudbury.com .  Angela Gilmore, a member of the Imagine group, is at angela@downtownvillage.ca . David Robinson is at 675-1151.

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17 Comments

  • Apologies to Reality for the misunderstanding. Sour mood + misinterpretation equals my reply. Sorry. All this makes me wonder just how long it''s going to be before we see another call center pop up in town. lol. Or even better...how about another drug store!!!! I think they''re competing with Tim Hortons for domination. I can tell you what the major problem is in sudbury. Getting businesses to open up shop and pay a fair wage that competes with the wages of similar jobs in other cities.

  • @DoubleDeck. I never said that downtown was without it''s problems, of course there are issues with the downtown. However, it would it really hurt anyone to look at the positives every once in a while? I live, shop, and go out downtown. While it may not be what it used to be, there have been a number of changes/additions made to the downtown in the last couple of years that has brought some new life into the core.

  • @sudburygrrl, not sure what planet you come from but I think they should do annual eye examinations... I agree with everything MAT said. Not sure if any of you remember when downtown was the place to be, things to do, places to go; happy non-drunk people. Now it''s just a solidified hole in the ever growing hole we call Sudbury... City workers, don''t bother fixing the potholes if you''re striving for a world record hole, we''re well on our way and these "ideas" in this article proves it. I am looking out my window right now and I see a big pothole, it keeps growing -- that''s us... right in the bottom of it, un-salvageable from neglect. Why not concentrate on keeping up what little we do have?

  • ''Cliff'' Why don’t you at least stay on topic? Your entire reply with the exception of two items has to do with public transportation. This article is not even about public transportation. Another thing, why one should not assume is again proven right. I DO in fact ride the bus. I do not know where you have gained the idea that I drive, I guess you do not read my replies when it comes to busing. Or maybe you just assumed. When I mentioned getting rid of the "eye sore bus depot", I meant re-locating it. Somewhere out of the core. Maybe one of the billions of parking lost peppered throughout the city. Reiterating the fact that you think riding the bus gets under my skin. I don’t know why it would. I think you may want to direct that comment to people like ''tapped out''. Read some of his responses about the bus service and fares. Finally, the hotel/casino. Your right, Sudbury does not need another hotel. In fact, tear some of them down. IF however, IF we had a casino/hotel right in the core, it would bring some activity to this dead city. Where is the closest casino, the Sault? This city is not diverse enough. We need to put up places that will attract all sorts of different people/tourists. Who comes here now? Kids for science north? Hell, we don’t even have a museum. This city has potential. To bad all the young are moving out and soon it will become a retirement town. All this potential is quickly going to waste.

  • I think before we start thinking of all the ways we can pour money into huge projects we should start small. Maybe some type of incentives for small businesses to try opening in the downtown area, make it easy for them to operate for some set time and see if that draws people in. If we can''t make the few people (myself included) that shop downtown stay there for more than an hour then huge projects won''t do anything but waste time and money. And really, would it kill the city to put some benches around downtown?

  • @Reality I really hope that one day in your senior years that the MTO pulls your licence from you and you have to use the bus service. Oh but wait...by that time, you''ll have cried enough to have your way and have your glorious casino(money dumpster) or hotel(because ya know...sudbury needs more of them) downtown and the bus depot will be gone or prices jacked up because you''ve also cried enough about having to subsidize it. I guess you''ll have to walk. I''ve had a car my whole life..but when i decided to go back to school(BECAUSE I LISTENED WHEN THEY SAID THE ECONOMY IS GOING TO CRASH) i took my car off the road and have been using the bus since then.(almost a year) But now that i know your stance and that of plenty others when it comes to the bus services....it makes my ride that much better knowing that it gets under your skin that much.

  • While I agree that downtown is quite a diminished part of town, I disagree with some of the reasons as to why. Paying for parking? COME ON PEOPLE!! Maybe you need to move to elliot lake or something. Sudbury wants to consider itself a ''bigger, better metropolis type city'', well name me a city in this description where parking is free in the core. Another statement was made in regards to the lack of parking? Are you kidding me??? Downtown has Enough!! parking. It doesn''t hurt to walk a little you know. As for the bums, well that''s an urban city lifestyle. You cant get rid of it. Just like drugs, they will always be around. If you find this to be unpleasant, well then, again, move somewhere rural. After all, their not hurting anyone. They should however have cops walking the beat getting rid of the drunken sloths. That will never happen. Our cops are traffic. They need their cars. As for the stores, well its trying to grow. Its not really happening, but some new places are opening up, an attempt is being made. If only the city center could go back to what it once was, get rid of the eye sore bus depot and its patrons, maybe put up a hotel/casino in its place, then I think downtown would start on the upward spiral. Will never happen though! EVER! Its Sudbury, remember.

  • same issue as always nobody wants to go downtown becuse who wants pay for parking. If I go downtown it''s because I have to and leave as fast as I can because there is nothing downtown. You walk threw the rainbow center maybe threw Harts and your tour is over and go home.I''ve commented on this issue before. they should rename Sudbury the Parkinng capital of the world. my guess that is why you have to pay for parking downtown. Someone has to pay for all those parking lots

  • Wanna revitalize the downtown "core" ? How about getting some constables back on foot patrol "weeding" out those who are most likely the main reason most people stay away in the first place.(can you believe the riff-raff going on at Timmy''s?...of all places) That and more parking would be nice. I''d love to take my girl to a Wolves game, or even to a club some night, but i fear for our safety - honest. Oh, and move City Surplus to a better location, like right next to ToolTown.

  • Sudburygirl. When I moved to Sudbury 20 years ago there was a downtown. Now it''s all over. I''ve watched the progress, how the city has spread out. It''s great. The only other city I lived in that I hated to leave because of the friendly people was the Whitehorse. Sudbury is a friendly city. Hey Mat, tell me to go back to the Yukon, I intend to.

  • @sudburygirl i don''t know what "downtown sudbury" you''re talking about. I go to college at everest...and i thank god every day that it''s the only thing i have to do around here. 4 hours per day downtown is more than enough to remind me that i''d rather gouge my eyes out than stick around in town. (fyi...street bums don''t count as specialty shops) As for the night life...my god. When it''s dark out, the bums and hookers come out in droves and the bar scene is a JOKE(and a burning joke at that :P) Not to mention all the 15 year old moms hanging out with the "gangstas" while pushing their babies in the strollers at 1 in the morning while smoking up. Yep...lots to love about downtown sudbury. Sheesh.

  • The downtown freight yard is a permanent fixture. It''s making more money than any other failed Sudbury venture ever did.

  • MAT I really think that you need to move far away from this city, you clearly hate it. I don''t think you have ever had one positive thing to say about the city or the people that live here. As a person that lives and works in the downtown core I can honestly say that I love it here. We have some amazing speciality shops and fantastic nightlife. Sure downtown isn''t what it used to be but most things aren''t what they used to be. I think the downtown has made some fantastic strides and will continue to do so in years to come.

  • here here "man about the town" I agree with everything that you said. I shop downtown mainly at Eat Local, Grand and Toy and a few other locally owned businesses and at times the market, although the Downtown Busines Groups and the city have destroyed that too!. Quelle suprise! The removal of the railway tracks has been an ongoing issue... blah, blah blah..... Instead of dumping millions and millions of dollars into the downtown, lets be more progressive and build the multisurface arena and attract many local and national dollars to sporting events and give our kids more facilities to play in. Hockey ice time is at a premium, I have two boys and a daughter in hockey, and we would love more sporting facitilites to further promote particpaction and sports! If downtown really wants the railway lines removed, they should put their money where their mouth is and invest some of their BIA as a measure of good faith, then we will all know that it isnt rhetoric. And finally, if the downtown associations would stop bickering and put their energy together as one cohesive unit instead of backstabing eachother and promoting their self interest , people like Mr. Bob Wygant and his crew that currently sit on the Downtown Board of Directors, you may just see the downtown revitalize

  • Downtown is dead. There. It''s finally been said. Let''s move on. Bringing in an "expert" from somewhere else, that has zero experience on this city''s history doesn''t do a thing. He wants a big project? Is he for real? Let me guess, how about a Monorail? Like in that Simpsons episode? The moving of the rail yards isn''t anything new. That original idea of Robinson''s has been brought up half a dozen times over the decades. The idea of moving the freight, storage, and maintenance to Capreol is old news. Moving the rails won''t change anything. It''ll only make the cancer grow. Lets face it, the current mess of the downtown lies squarely on the shoulders of the downtown business groups and the city leaders that tried to protect their kingdom. The rot has gone too far and too deep. There is NO way to fix the city core. They had their chance with the casino. They had a chance with Boreal. They had their opportunity with an Ontario Beautification Grant in the 1980''s. The groups chose to vote down the casino and push it away. They could have had the colleges downtown. Turning the core into a student village. Drawing in renters and the spin off shopping and entertainment. The casino would have had a synergy making the core an entertainment spot. WIth pubs, movie theatres, and a host of restaurants. The city spent the Ontario cash on lockstone sidewalks that nobody uses. Ones that had crosswalks torn up after lawsuits. Nope. Don''t lift a finger for the city core. They''ve had their chances, and now want more. Luoma, Anselmo, and the rest made this bed. Sleep well.

  • Uhhhhh...hmmmmmmmm....What?Good luck with that Prof.I''m sure the Koreans are falling all over themselves to build something in Sudbury.Imagine?I am but it''s not working for me.

  • Danger, Mr. Robinson, Danger! You''re saying that in order to prevent our rather unique city from disappearing, we have to appease foreign investors since we need their money. I don''t know about the rest of you, but I''m not looking forward to living in a foreign-owned Canada (its bad enough the major employer in this town is foreign owned… yay for Vale!) I’m a proud Canadian, and as such believe that a solution to downtown’s problem should be sought in Canada. As for “world class projects”, think of SNO (the Sudbury Neutrino Observatory). We have something the rest of the world can admire, but what we don’t have enough of are THINGS THAT SUDBURIANS CAN ENJOY. If there’s a problem with people going downtown and walking in to stores, give them a reason to go there. I’d be willing to wager that more people go to the Sudbury Transit bus depot on a daily basis than the rest of the downtown core combined. We built something the people could use, and surely enough, they came. Now what’s missing is a reason to leave the bus depot when you have an hour to kill between busses. I question how this guy got to be professor of economics if he believes having foreign investors build “a world class project” is actually a good idea.