Home > Sudbury News

Bishop struggles against “unjust” hierarchy

There seems to be a huge hang-up on gender roles among some Christian/Catholics.It is no wonder that institutional religion is closing up ...

Posted by: Paten

Read All Comments

Article Tools

May 15, 2007

By:

BY HEIDI ULRICHSEN

One of just three women in the world who considers herself to be a Roman Catholic bishop visited Greater Sudbury Friday.

bishopPatricia Fresen, 66, was in town to visit with Marie Bouclin, a local woman who will be unofficially ordained a priest at a ceremony in Toronto May 27. Neither woman is considered to be Roman Catholic clergy by the church’s hierarchy.

Fresen was unofficially made a bishop in 2005 by three male Roman Catholic bishops who believe women should be ordained. She had been previously unofficially ordained a priest in 2003.

The woman grew up as a Roman Catholic in South Africa, and was a nun in the Dominican order for 45 years.

She now lives in Germany and is training about 150 women and married men who want to become Roman Catholic priests. She never thought about becoming a priest in her younger years, but gradually started believing it was unfair women weren’t allowed to become ordained.

Fresen has a PhD in theology, and used to work at the seminary in South Africa where men were trained to become priests.

“I was the only woman on the staff, and I was teaching sacramental theology, spirituality and homiletics (preaching). I was good enough to teach them how to preach, but I was never allowed to preach in the chapel myself because I’m a woman,” she said.

“My place in the church was in the corner in the back, and all the students sat in front of me. More and more it began to get to me. I began to realize how unjust it was.

“I had all the same qualifications as the men. I had a doctorate, and some of the priests had a master’s degree.”

Fresen was also a spiritual director at the seminary, and students often came to confess their sins to her and talk about their problems. But because she wasn’t a priest, she was unable to give them absolution or assign them penance.

“A lot of those students would say to me, ‘If I could imagine a woman being ordained, sister, I would imagine it being you’.”

Frustrated, Fresen left the seminary, and got another job at a Roman Catholic university in South Africa. In 2002, she heard seven women were going to be ordained in the Roman Catholic church on the Danube River in Germany.

A few months later, the university sent her to a conference in Frankfurt, Germany. She met two of the ordained women while she was there, and they asked if she also wanted to be ordained. “Everything within me just came up and I said, ‘Yes.’ I had longed for it for years and years and years. It was being offered to me on a plate,” she said.

Fresen was ordained as a priest at a ceremony in Barcelona, Spain in 2003.

The ceremony was performed by two of the ordained women who, by that time, had also been ordained as bishops.

The women were made bishops by three male Roman Catholic bishops who sympathized with their cause.

After Fresen was ordained as a priest, she was thrown out of the Dominican order of nuns and lost her job at the university. She left the country because she was offered a job in Germany training other women and married men who want to become Roman Catholic priests.

“I never thought they (the Dominican nuns) would throw me out. We stood up for justice during apartheid. So many sisters were jailed. If they could stand up against racism, I really believed they would stand up against sexism.”

Fresen was eventually contacted by one of the three male bishops who had helped to ordain the two female bishops.

He said he was afraid the church hierarchy was going to figure out who he was soon, and he and his peers wanted to ordain one more female bishop first.

“He said ‘We need one more.’ To ordain priests, you only need one bishop. But to ordain bishops, you need three bishops. They ordained me as a bishop on Jan. 1, 2005. So I’m a very young bishop, although I’m a very old lady.”

Fresen said the male bishops who ordained her have not yet been caught, but they live in fear that the church hierarchy is going to find out who they are.

The woman said the next step for her and the other female bishops is to ordain a bishop for North America, since it is hard for her to keep travelling across the ocean to ordain women and married men. This bishop will be elected by her peers.

“My ultimate hope with all this is to change a little bit the kind of church we have,” she said.

“The kind of church we have now is not the kind of community Jesus had in mind. I don’t think Jesus would be happy with the hierarchical structures of the church, or the fact that women are excluded from being ordained.”

Bookmark and Share

Reader's Feedback

Editor’s Note:

NorthernLife.ca may contain content submitted by readers, usually in the form of article comments or postings to myNews. All reader comments and any opinions, advice, statements or other information contained in any messages posted or transmitted by any third party are the responsibility of the author of that message and not of NorthernLife.ca. The fact that a particular message is posted on or transmitted using this web site does not mean that NorthernLife.ca has endorsed that message in any way or verified the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message. We encourage visitors to NorthernLife.ca to report any objectionable content by using the "report abuse" link found in the comments section of this web site.

34 Comments

  • There seems to be a huge hang-up on gender roles among some Christian/Catholics.It is no wonder that institutional religion is closing up shop.

  • the year 2007. how can anyone try to impose their views on anyone else. does the marriage of two people of the same sex really threaten your religious beliefs. consenting adults.

  • Trav? I hear you loud and clear and I AGREE that being a true CHRISTian has NOTHING to do with which religion/denomination one is or claims to be! Walking the walk of a true CHRISTian is every MAN or WOMANs "choice" and no where in the Bible does it say that women should or can't do the same CHRISTian work that men do! No where in the Bible does it say that God only wants men to spread His words or/and do His work(s)! Thank you for explaining your comment of Friday, May 18, 2007 and GBU Trav! :)

  • I'm impressed with the number of faithful Catholics responding to this (biased) article. Do you all live in Sudbury? It sometimes seems like liberals only up here! This article illustrates how religion is for many all about elevating themselves, instead of accepting God's will. Any clergy reading this? We need you to speak up and defend the Church that we love.

  • Visions, my comment was aimed at catholic doctrine, not Christian belief. I myself am a Christian, just not catholic. To this day, the Catholic church has yet to give one good reason why women cannot do the same duties as men. Hundreds of years ago, by physical strength, it was necessary for men to work and women to mind the children, unless the man was incapable of working. The catholic church, 1,000 to 300 years ago was responsible for the massacre of so many free-thinking women who said "Hey wait a minute, why can't we work? Why can't we have a say in how our society is run?" These women were killed in the "Name of God" so forgive me if I seriously doubt that God wouldn't want women to do the same duties of men based on the Catholic Church's word.

  • Trav? Catholic or not, here's a fact:"ONE God for EVERYONE"! Bless you! :)

  • TO: Ray Thomas; LOL, cute and funny your:"What next, a bunch of men wanting to become nuns". Ray? We never know and NEVER say NEVER because NEVER is a looooooooooooong time! PLEASE God, in Jesus's name, help us ALL!!!!

  • the answer to your question:" As for the declining number of people attending services, do you think that it could maybe be attributed to all the hipocracies that go on in the church"? is:" YES, WITHOUT A DOUBT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Listen to all of you "good catholics". You are preaching hatred, and intolerance, and should all be ashamed of yourselves. The church can't tolerate women being priests, someone even calling it a "mortal sin", but it will tolerate priests molesting young children? Shame on all of you. As for the declining number of people attending services, do you think that it could maybe be attributed to all the hipocracies that go on in the church?

  • Can someone tell me what's the difference if a woman were to be a priest or if it's a man? If this debate continues on, we're going to have religious wars and we are all gonna go to hell cuz of that.

  • wow, reading your comments, I'm sure glad I'm not catholic.

  • Wow.. I just wasted about 10 minutes reading through these comments... and I'm going to put emphasis on the word "wasted". The majority of comments here are very offensive. The story is about a woman who wants to make a difference within a religion... I think one of the comments called her a "tool of the devil"... that's rough, man. You should be ashamed. I think the reason that the catholic church does not allow female priests is the same reason why medieval military groups would not allow women warriors - they are far more valuable and not an expendible resource. If there is a war, you need a lot of women to bring the population back to where it was prior to the battle. If you allow women to be celibate priests, then they become about as expendible as male priests - see where this is going? Now a days, this is a ridiculous tradition. No society is in any danger of having their population decimated. Women are able to fight in wars alongside men - so why can't they preach the word of god alongside men as well? Think about it.

  • The teachings of Jesus through His Church on Sacred Orders (Ordination) are not the teachings of any particular Pope. The Holy Father (sucessor of Saint Peter) is called by God to defend and pass on the faith and doctrine of the Catholic Church. I see that quite often people will blame a particular Pope (ie: Pope John Paul II or Pope Benedict XVI for a teaching they don't like or want to see changed. The late Pope John Paul II himself stated that he did not have the authority to change the teaching on Ordination. Whether people agree or not ordination is reserved to men alone. I would like to quote the late Pope John Paul II in his Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacredotolis when he said that Holy Orders is to be reserved to men alone and that this teaching is: "to be held definitevely, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith". Some people disagree but regardless we must hold fast to the official teaching of the Church not our own opinions. Those women who refer to themselves as "priests" are doing just that...calling themselves "priests" they are not ordained as pointed out very well by comments written by other people before mine. The Church has always affirmed the gift and role of women in the Church. Many women do great things for Christ everyday. When it comes to how we serve in the Body of Christ the Church with respect to vocations each plays a different role in building up the Church.

  • Ok....A women can't be a priest, no more than the Church turn a pizza into the Body of Christ. I say kick them out. With all of their "education" I can't see how they don't understand. They want to be men so bad, they sacrifice their own fiminity. What next, a bunch of men wanting to become nuns? It is a MORTAL SIN and we all know it. Protestants, thats what they are....in "protest" of the Church.

  • QUOTE: "One of just three women in the world who considers herself to be a Roman Catholic bishop visited Greater Sudbury Friday." She can consider herself whatever she wants in her own world. Make up any title she wants. If Patricia Fresen wants she consider herself the only female Pope or Queen of the Universe. It really doesn't mean a thing. The bottom line is that the Church is clear on faith and the rules of becoming an ordained Priest or Bishop. And the self anointment of Patricia Fresen as a Bishop is worth the air it's written on.

  • In the comment above, Father Patrick O'Neill said "I belive their desire to be priests or bishops is about power and control and not service to the Church." Goodness, that's very perceptive of you to believe this without ever engaging in any type of dialogue with these women, Father. I presume this means that you're a proficient mind-reader, since you can definitively determine their motives based on what you think to be true. That's the problem with simply "believing" something - it's entirely arbitrary and meaningless. A person (or indeed a large group of people) believing something does not make it true. You have a church leader sitting in a throne in Rome saying that women can't be ordained. You believe he's passing on the will of God. I believe he's a bigot who doesn't want to share power with women simply because it's outside of his comfort zone. Who's right? Nobody knows - we can all believe what we like.

  • May we all pray that people and religions stop being so sexist. Patrick O'Neill..." I believe their desire to be priests is about power and control"...think about it.

  • wow, am i ever glad i was not born catholic, especially after listening to all these sexist comments about women. I say more power to this female bishop for standing up and fighting for something she believes in. The church's ways are antiquated, and do not fit in with todays society. Unless they change, you are going to lose all of your followers to other religions that are more accepting and open minded.

  • It is truly a shame that the Roman Catholic Church will never change or that the so-called leaders do not want change. Change is healthy and welcomed. The Church is faced with a depleted stock of priests. The Church is also faced with empty seats as people do not see themselves in this institution or that it is no longer relevant in their lives. It is truly a shame that parents who send their children to a Catholic school cannot truly live their faith by going to Church. Jesus may have chosen men to continue his teachings, but how can we say with exact precision that he would continue with this same movement. I truly hope that one day I will see married men and women sharing their love of God as priests. To live with a narrow view of issues can only lead to terrible accidents.

  • Perhaps religion should focus on what they should do to improve, and not hinder, society today as we know it. Instead of wasting time and breathe on issues such as these. If you have faith, so be it, live and let live.

  • The Church cannot ordain women priests. It has been definativley stated by the late Pope John Paul II. This is now part of the Deposit of Faith and WILL NEVER be changed. It cannot possibly happen. I pray that these women who proclaim that they are "priests" or "bishops" may be faithful to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. I believe their desire to to be "priests" is about power and control not service to the Church. May we all pray that these women will come to accept the teachings of Jesus through His Church.

  • This is so sad and, funny at the same time. Same as Rev Falwell's ex-ghost writer who tried to convert the Rev to the truth that homosexuality is a 'gift' from God; not a sin. What's sadder is that we 'the people' with our many donations fund the education of these ... sad, sad, fools.

  • Isn't it ironic that all of the protestant churches that ordain women and married men do not have enough vocations. Isn't it obvious that the priest shortage is not about ordaining women or celibacy? It's about the shortage of faith.

  • I resent the fact that these women are called "Roman Catholic" priests and bishops. They are not these because they are not in communion with the Church that Jesus Christ established. The Church is clear that it does not have the authority to authorize female ordinations. We are allowing social rights to interfere with what the Law of God state. They Church cannot change this! Why do we continue to be hard of heart and not accept the Will of God? Don't argue that it is the will of men. The hierarchy is full of sinful men, let's not fight sin with sin disguised in social justice!

  • I think you should have the words "bishop" in italics as she really isn't a bishop...she considers herself a "bishop"

  • As you read what she says in quotes, the operative word used is "I" this and "I" that. It seems quite clear that it's not about Jesus and His Church.

  • I do not agree that women can be ordained as priests.I hope the church that I attend do not accept women as priests because it does not make sense.If the Catholic church accepts women priests then I would stop going to church because we all know that it's not right for women to be priests.

  • I just love these kinds of phrases: "Neither woman is considered to be Roman Catholic clergy by the church's hierarchy." That's akin to saying about a man arrested for impersonating a police officer, "The man is not considered a police officer by the police department."

  • Hmm. So, Ms. Fresen is confused that she would be expelled from the Catholic Dominican Order after she did something that incurred an automatic excommunication and that doctrinally placed her outside the bounds of orthodox Catholicism. What is so confusing about a Catholic order recognising that a person's beliefs and actions are irreconcilable with the Catholic faith? There also seems to be a good deal of confusion on the part of the three bishops who have been secretly conducting feigned ordinations. They know their beliefs and actions are contrary to the teachings and laws of the Catholic Church, and yet they still wish to be Catholic bishops. It would show more integrity, however, if they either accepted Catholic teaching or else went public and admitted that, after all, they really don't agree with the Catholic Church and cannot in good conscience remain affiliated with her.

  • This would be funny if it weren't so sad - these poor deluded women must know deep within themselves that it is no more possible for a woman to be ordained than it is for pigs to fly. Like "same-sex marriage", simply calling something by a name doesn't make it that thing. Both cases are just simulations of those sacraments, what one might call play-acting. Wake up, folks!

  • It is not possible for a woman to become a priest. Holy Orders is a sacrament, and in order to confect a sacrament, there must be valid matter, valid form, and proper intention. Women "priests" lack valid matter and thus are not priests at all, their protestations notwithstanding. No one has a "right" to be a priest, and only those called by the Church can become priests. Women are not called by the Church. The people who are most vehemently against "women priests" are other Catholic women.

  • Christ who went outside the norms of His day did not pick women to be His Apostles. Christ who is God does not change. You can call it what you want if you 'ordain" women, however it will never take because it isn't in the power of anyone in the church to change, not even the pope! This goal of women priest is an attack on the Eucharist. A priest acts in place of Christ BRIDEGROOM who gave Himself to His BRIDE the Church. A woman can't be a BRIDEGROOM! A woman can't take the place of CHRIST at the EUCHARIST. Satan want's to destroy the Eucharist our heavenly food.

  • There is no priestly vocation shortage. Rather, the Catholic Church is unwilling to use the many spiritual gifts that women can give. Women have the right to voice their dissatisfaction about the sexism that presently exists in the Church.

  • Why must people ascribe modern, political ideologies regarding men and women in society onto faith. God is above the laws of Man, and so just becuase our society today thinks that men should do the same jobs as women and vice versa (which is right in the secular world), this does not translate into women should be ordained priests, let alone bishops. Somehow, I have missed the connection here.