Vale Inco preventing negotiations: union

Steelworkers Local 6500 president John Fera speaks at a press conference at the union's hall on Brady Street Dec. 17. The union says Vale Inco is unwilling to negotiate without several pre-conditions. Photo by Heidi Ulrichsen.

Steelworkers Local 6500 president John Fera speaks at a press conference at the union's hall on Brady Street Dec. 17. The union says Vale Inco is unwilling to negotiate without several pre-conditions. Photo by Heidi Ulrichsen.

Dec 17, 2009- 2:40 PM

Local 6500 releases confidential letter

By: Heidi Ulrichsen - Sudbury Northern Life

Steelworkers Local 6500 officials handed out documents to the media Dec. 17 which they say prove it is Vale Inco, not the union, which is preventing further negotiations from taking place.

More than 3,000 members of the union have been on strike since July 13, or for more than five months now. There have been no talks between the two parties since that time.

Speaking at a press conference at the union's new hall on Brady Street, the union leaders said Vale Inco will not go back to the bargaining table without the union agreeing to pre-conditions - namely changing to a defined contribution pension plan for new employees, a restructured nickel bonus plan and smaller changes to the collective agreement which the company says would bring about “efficiencies.”

The first document given to the media is a letter dated Dec. 11, which was sent by Steelworkers District 6 director Wayne Fraser to Vale Inco president and CEO Tito Martins, and the company's labour lawyer, Harvey Beresford of the law firm Hicks Morley.

The letter said that Fraser had recently talked to Greg Long, a provincial mediator, about the possibility of re-starting negotiations. Long, according to the letter, called Beresford, and passed on the union's request.

“Following that discussion with Mr. Long, Mr. Beresford then called me and stated that he did not see a point in resuming negotiations until the union was willing to concede to Vale's concessions,” stated Fraser, in the letter.

The second document, a “strictly privileged and confidential” letter from Beresford to Fraser, said Beresford was “ready to sit down with (Fraser) and explore possible solutions that will lead us to meeting with full teams in order to have resolution of our new collective agreement.”

At the same time, the letter also said that “to date, there is no reason to believe that further negotiations will be successful.”

The letter said “as recently as last week, senior USW representatives have said that the union will not accept any of the fundamental changes the company requires. The cry of 'no concessions' continues and will not get us to a new collective agreement. Our settlement proposal is fair and responsible.”

Vale Inco spokesperson Steve Ball said, as Beresford letter states, the company is willing to talk with the union about a framework for negotiations.

But sending in two negotiating teams, along with a provincial mediator, would be doomed to fail. Another set of failed negotiations would cause both sides to become even further apart, said Ball.

As well, Ball said unless the union is willing to accept the three pre-conditions set out by the company, the chances of re-starting negotiations are very slim.

Fera said that up until this point, Local 6500 has tried not to negotiate in the media, but the “company has now forced our hand.”

He said the most common question he is asked by union members is whether there is any hope of re-starting negotiations, and he wanted to show them that it Vale Inco doesn't want to negotiate, and they should get themselves “ready for a long winter.”

Fera said the same documents provided to the media were also given to the 700 people who attended a union meeting Dec. 16.

“They want us to negotiate the contract before we get to negotiations. They want us to tell them that we will give in on the three or four major items that put our local on strike,” said Fera. “Imagine a company wanting to negotiate before sitting down to negotiate the contract. It's despicable.”

Steelworkers staff representative Myles Sullivan said when negotiations were underway last spring and early last summer, there were some changes to contract language, but when it came to the major issues, Vale Inco presented the same proposal to the union three times.

Fera said the union is considering a number of options, including mediation with a provincial mediator and bringing a bargaining in bad faith complaint against the company to the Ontario Ministry of Labour.

When asked about a possible bargaining in bad faith complaint, Ball said this was the first he'd heard of the idea, and that the company had “absolutely not” bargained in bad faith.

He also said he'd be willing to speak to Vale Inco at any time if the company was willing to drop pre-conditions.

When asked by a reporter whether releasing a confidential document to the media could get the Steelworkers in legal trouble, Fera said “What more problems can we have? They're suing everyone anyhow. I don't think one more piece of paper is going to make a difference.”

Local 6500 has been brought to court by Vale Inco several times on the complaint that the union is not following a court injunction which sets out picket line protocol. The company recently sued the union and 19 strikers for $25 million over picket line protocol issues.

Nine strikers have also recently been sued for damages ranging from $75,000 to $120,000 because of alleged incidents on the picket lines. Local 6500 is not named in these lawsuits.

“We fully recognize that the vast majority of our employees who are on strike are doing so in a peaceful and law-abiding manner,” said Ball.“There are a few who believe a strike and being a member of a union gives them the right to act in an unlawful way.”

When asked why no criminal charges have been laid against the strikers, Ball said “we're not the police. Only the police can lay criminal charges.”

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72 Comments

  • The union wouldn't dare having a re-vote on the old deal canon5d.
    The leaders know they screwed up. Mislead the members into believing the job action would be over by October. Basically a summer off and a fat signing bonus at the end. All because the stockpiles would be gone, and Vale panicked by the resolve of unified Steelworkers around the world!

    This is no longer a strike about a shifted pension for new hires. Or a realigned, realistic bonus. Its about ego. And since that's happened, 6500's members have been doing a lot of soul searching.
    100+ have bailed out and taken their pensions. 50+ have crossed the lines and reported to work. More by the day are contemplating the same. Some have left for lesser jobs and haven't informed 6500 because they still want their 200 bucks for 'strike pay'. Others are frustrated because they can't get jobs as employers refuse to hire them. (No kidding. They have a job and will bail out on you when the strike ends or collapses in the upcoming months - Reverse scabs if you like)
    The spectre of experienced replacement workers in January is out there.

    One Day Longer is about to be One Day Too Late.

    Add it all up and everybody knows why the union hasn't the balls to have another vote.

  • well said canon5d

  • Lard thunderin. Can these guys get any stupider?
    The companys lawyer sends that Fraser guy this letter thats

    “strictly privileged and confidential” that said Beresford was “ready to sit down with (Fraser) and explore possible solutions that will lead us to meeting with full teams in order to have resolution of our new collective agreement.”

    an buddy shows it to everyone whose there and is dumb enough to say the company won't negotiate.

    Whats he smokin?

  • the union say no preconditions for to start for talks to resume. but there stance is no concessions surely that is a precondition. hello anyone home?have a vote now see how much supoort you have?

  • Having this union thug using the Canadian flag as a back drop is disgusting. He sits on his fat azz earning $250.000 a year while the folks he claims to represent are on UI. He sits there like a mafia kingpin, with his lieutenants, lord of the manor, getting paid and achieving nothing......same on you Fera.

  • The purpose of this letter is to inform you of my resignation from my current position as a professional blogger. I wish you and all NL bloggers continued success in all your endeavors. And please let me know if I can be of assistance in any way to help with a smooth transition.

    Sincerely,
    NOmeanNO

  • 3 main reasons for this strike
    1- new pension for all new hires..... do you think vale is hiring soon and why would anyone think this as a strike issue since the ones on strike are already hired and thier pension is not effected
    2- nickel bonus capmore» raised.......... they did not get rid of it just made it more realsitic and it is a bonus, one very few workers get
    3- job transfers.......... put a limit on transfer and bidding on job because they want to train people and have them stay to do the job, not traing them just so they can transfer somewhere else

    i hope xstrata and unions are looking at this because both mining and technical contracts up in the new year. no one wins from a strike NO ONE

  • Hey there turd
    don't get too happy me son....there's a bunch of guys in Timmins will come down and thaw that smelter out for Vale Inco but Garfield told me that after Jan 16 there's gonna be a bunch of yer scabs trying to make a living will do the same job.
    He showed me those white rail road cars at the South Mine. he says they look like the cars section gangs live in.
    Seems to me you're whipped byes. best you can hope for is to get your job back and get all those benefits and a steady check coming in.

  • The smelter is frozen stiff,,,,,,,,,YIPEEE,,,,,,,
    Grrrrreat job Rog,,,,,

  • Hey me sons
    Heard today from Harry in Brampton that the USW settled the Driver examiner strike. He couldn't tell me what they got but that the union was telling them to take the offer.
    Any you guys hear what Leo got for those ones?

  • sandman, the same can be said for the Union though too right? From what I understand, they don't want concessions, therefore they won't budge from their first position = no change.

  • I have to agree if Vale won't come to the table with out the union accepting the original consessions then they are barganing in bad faith. they have not moved one bit from their first position and won't accept anything less?
    how is that not barganing in bad faith?
    they aren't accepting anything other than what they have offered = no change.
    can you not see that?
    Vale won't go back to the table & the union won't eccept their last offer, but can't go back to the table without bending?
    rediculous!
    Stay strong 6500!!!!

  • I believe the union is still waiting for vale inco to prove that the company is not finacially viable. If they could prove their case I imagine the union would have any easier time accepting some concessions. The comany has already stated that they plan on spending 8 billion dollars in 5 years in sudbury opertations. I think the members want to know what the campanies plans are for the future before they can decide if the deal they have been offered is fair and responsible.

  • Other than the union brass, and I suspect a very small number of the workers on strike, who actually believes the union line that Vale is "preventing negotiations"?
    They've stated from the get-go what they need to remain viable, and from any objective perspective (and thus something completely foreign to union thinking), it is minor stuff.
    The union brass has lost all credibility with the public, and probably with most of the workers. Just a matter of time before they've lost whatever pittance of credibility they think they have left.

  • Noone...I think you need to read my post again. I said that BOTH sides need to go back to the table, with NO pre-conditions.

  • ROG grow up please. Your post made a bit of sense at first but then the last half revealed your state of mind.

  • Honestly, the union has to get some real people to negotiate. Having John Fera and his team of clowns try to negotiate with vale people who are well educated is a joke. The union says vale is preventing negotiations. Vale said from day one that they want changes and the union said they want no changes, so don't say your willing to go back to the table and talk if your saying no concessions. IT's a pride thing with the union now. Local 6500 likes to knock down inco and bad mouth the company but I am sure they really kissed ass in the interview room when they were first hired. I am a little confused, if vale is such a bad company to work for then why did the apply, just quit. Oh wait, where else can you work 2 out of 8 hours and be overpaid!

  • Well said webster, I agree that the community as a whole is failing due to this, get back to the table people.

  • pt2
    on these bonuses, is again, a little up surd. I think in all fairness, if the company is doing well, so should our community. Don't kid yourselves you nay sayers, when our brothers at Inco do well, our community does well, no ifs, ands, or buts. But here is the kicker of all kickers. Why is everyone pitted against each other here?? Really?? Think about this. These strikers are our neighbors, our friends, our brothers, our sisters. They are the ones who come out in droves to help our local charities, our food banks, our community. They spend their hard earned money in our community, which in turn provide jobs for our friends, our neighbors, our brothers, our sisters. When they do well we do well. Some may wish to point out the money provided by Vale and Old Inco to many of the same charities and causes, okay, that is fair, but do you think that they don't want to hold some favour in the eyes of the Sudbury public too? This is not simply a battle of greedy, unhappy employees, this is about maintaining a level of commitment to those that provide those profits in the first place. Vale get back to the table, USW 6500 there is room to bend.

  • I find it how surprising how many of the people posting on here are so far in one corner or the other that they fail to see the true problems which this community faces due to this prolonged strike.
    On the one side you have those that seem none other than jealous that those in unions have someone looking out for their best interests, someone who will fight for better working conditions, fair wages, fair benefits, and a lifestyle which is equitable. Perhaps I'm wrong, but whatever the reason, many seem more intent on fueling the fire than providing any positive addition to these comment boards.
    On the other side you have the die hard union guys that seem more intent to over simplify the reasons why they're where they are today.
    I apologize to both sides here, as I'm on neither one side or the other. I believe some change is necessary. I believe that it is up surd that the union should agree to come to the table if and only if they agree to take Vale's deal before going, after all, what would there be to argue??? Really, that is the issue USW 6500 is bringing up here.
    To those that think that the changes to the pension package will be worse off under the new deal, this may not be the case, it depends how you invest it. I can understand the unwillingness to change from what you currently have, but we live in different times, change is inevitable. However, if the percentage of contribution by Vale is not specified in the contract, this does in fact give reason to say "HELL NO"!! Again, who agrees blindly to anything??? Sure you can fill in the blanks yourself, I trust you. Yeah right.
    On the issue of the nickel bonus. The lower limit needs to be changed, there's no way around that. We live in a world of increased costs, things today will cost more than yesterday, that's just the way it goes, and things tomorrow will cost more than today. That's inflation, learn it, know it, deal with it. But, to put a cap on the

  • Umm, yeah....it is "if the third company did NOT make the quoted goal or margin....."
    Wording stuff happens. After reading previous posts....LOL :)

  • Hmmm...Vale is a corporation. Guess what?! So is Local 6500 (aka USW). If Vale is out to make money, then what separates USW? Oh yeah, I forgot. They are a union. It's not like they millions or the such.
    As for this contract thing. Like it or not, Vale INCO does NOT owe the Sudbury division any of its billions made elswhere in the world. Simple. If you own four businesses, and each grossed enough to cover its' own operating costs and let you bring home a 2% (example, example) profit. Then why would you split money if the third company did make the quoted goal or margin for the year? Would you really make the other three companies cover the costs of the one that is not making the necessary requirements? Think about that before you answer. On top of all this, when it comes to sustainability, how far would your projections be? 5-10, 2-5, 10-15, 5-20 years? Put yourself in the shoes of the business for five minutes. What would you do differently? When you find the answer, take it to your union, as it is vale that YOU work for and LOCAL 6500 works for YOU! Put some thought into this. How long do you want this company to run? Very simple.

  • when is the light bulb going to come on for local 6500. the old wage structures are to expensive for the company to be viable. setting preconditions of no concessions will never work.the nickel market is swamped with nickel and might very well get worse

  • Excuse me Mr. Nooner sir
    Vale Inco can do whatever they want sir.
    It's like my boss Ranji who owns the 7-11. He told me this was how much he would pay me. Business was very bad. If I didn't like it, I could go somewhere else but that was all he was going to pay for someone to do my job.

  • Informed, Vale shouldn't be dictating anything as a prerequisite to getting back to bargaining.
    That is unprofessional and unfair, and is the very definition of bargaining in bad faith.

  • veil INCO losing 7 mil aday!!!,,,,,,,,,,,,YIPEEEE!!!!,,,,,,,
    GRRRREAT JOB Rog!!!!!!

  • The company says "are offer is fair and responsible." Well I say go back to the bargaining table and prove it. The company keeps contradicting itself when it tells its employees and the community that "Vale Inco isn't financially viable." Then it turns around and tells its shareholders that they just want to enhance the long term competiveness of vale inco to maintain sustainable value creation for its shareholders. Eventually the two-faced cowards that run Vale are going to have to crawl out of the holes they are hiding in and explain what exactly the situation is in regards to the long term competiveness of vale inco.

  • Hey Sean10. If you actually think that unions cripled our national economy i question your knowledge and intelligence. Subprime lending and fractional reserve banking practices(primarily in the US) is what caused the huge dip in our economy we have just experienced. There's no need to compare past union battles to this one because circumstances in the past have never been the way they are now. The United States monetary policy is still unsustainable....and if drastic changes aren't made to overhaul the system the US economy will implode. Along with it, it will drasticly affect the worlds economy. What we have just seen in the us economy is just a symptom of the disease. The big hit is yet to come. In Ontario i don't think any informed individual would disagree with me that our government supports big buisness. It's obvious, we see it all around us, Inco and Xstrata in sudbury is a prime example. Middle class workers are left out to dry. Middle class wages are practicly frozen in time while the cost of living chugs along at a "healthy" pace. Comparing the Inco 79 strike to this one is not really usefull. Inco in 79 was not a very powerfull company. Now we are dealing with Vale, a company with tremendous wealth and as a result power. It's plain as day to see what is happening here. The company can afford to keep the workers on the picket line longer than the workers can afford it. Especially considering they can and will just bring in scabs to run their operation. The union will shout scabs and try to stop it...and take the company to court...but this time i predict...the company will win...why? Because vale high price lawyers are way better than the union can afford. And you can bet there's already been a back door deal made somewhere tipping the odds in favor of the company before anyone even sets foot in the court room. I'm nor pro union, or pro Vale. Working in a union environment has advantages and disa

  • Look,'Unschmeducated'.........there is NOTHING complicated here.

    If the Ndp,'wasted' money,because they did not accomplish anything,it follows suit that the conservatives 'wasted' money............if THEY did not accomplish anything.

    Do we use different criteria for each party?.......oh,let me guess...........i suppose its YOU who decides whats wastefull and whats not.Give your head a shake

  • Hey Sean 10 little do you know that Walmart has one of the biggest union in the states for their employees so i think you had better do some research before you blast out someone!!!!!!!!!!

  • hypocritical? its a pretty long order to compare the "leaders" of this union to the prime minister of canada, its also a far order to compare the climate summit to your useless strike. hypocritical? at least they may not be embellishers like yourself. take a seat.

  • Lets see how hypocritical some people on this site are.

    My husband is a Vale striker.We discuss the situation every day,and i follow this forum religiously.Last week,Gelinas and the Ndp were 'crucified' mercilessly on this site......for 'wasting time and money'for flying to Brazil.

    Well,my hubby and i watched the news tonite.Stephen Harper AND his entourage,ALL ON PUBLIC MONEY,travelled to Copenhagen to discuss climate emissions.

    The reports were unanimous...........ABSOLUTELY nothing was accomplished.Well,i certainly hope the SAME people on this site who complained about wasting money........will turn their wrath to the CONSERVATIVE government........for wasting time and money.

    Or,as i suspect..........you are ALL union haters,and were just looking for an excuse to criticize the ndp

  • Listen to this,it is just a suggestion: The union should tell the company that we will take their conditions and go back to tha table, but here is the kicker hit them up for a higher way higher wages and if they accept it then work to rule for the life of that contract and every other contract after that and every time that contract negotations hit them for more money again (stick together because Vale is trying to rid themself of the union) so they can bring their bums from Brazil to do your jobs. it was just a suggestion Keep the union strong.

  • That was a good answer. But I've heard the opposite too. Now it could be just rumour...so I'm not going to say it's true. But I heard from a friend of mine, that when Vale approached the Union about negotiating, they asked if they were willing to talk and make concessions, and the Union response was no. So the Vale reps just walked away and said that when the union was ready to negotiate, to come talk to them.

    So now it's a case of 'he said / she said'....and I'm a firm believer that the actual truth to the story lies somewhere in the middle. So, in this case, it would mean that both Vale and the Union are un-willing to budge in their positions. That's why I said it might be a good idea to just go back to the table, with NO pre-conditions and (key point here for everyone) with an OPEN mind. And that goes for BOTH parties.

  • Okay. That was a good answer - IF it is accurate. But I don't think it is.

    Perhaps you need to read more critically. I'm not hearing any concession talk from any of the bloggers - quite the opposite. And all I am hearing is criticism from Fera about not getting back to the table - the company knows as well as he does that he is not going to budge on their three key issues. So as Ball says - what is the point?

    It sounds more like the union is trying to create the perception of good faith by saying "no preconditions" so they can get back to the table and say NO to any changes to pensions, bonuses and transfer rights again. That is simply being dishonest.

    Because I have YET to hear Fera talk about any concessions at all.

    Ask him directly for yourself. You and I both know what the answer will be.

    He needs a way out of this that allows him to save face, because this cannot be working out the way he thought it would.

  • The union isn't saying "no concessions" anymore. The union is saying lets go back to the bargaining table with no pre-conditions and bargain in good faith. That, to me, is an invitation to go back to the bargaining table and start over again.

    This whole situation is getting out of control, and all because the company doesn't have anyone that knows how to negotiate. I realize this is probably the first time vale has ever really had to negotiate a contract. Perhaps someone should explain to roger agnelli how negotitations work.

    If he wants the concessions he demands he should have asked for more concessions then what he really wants. Then the union could have counter offered. Then the company and union go to the table to bargain / compromise, and come to an agreement that everyone can live with. That is how negotiating works. Coming to the table with the exact same offer three times in a row is not negotiationg. I'm sorry, but this whole mess roger agnelli created is sad. It is sad to see such a profitable company being mis-managed by such a poor business man.

  • D. Laframboise, once again, all you mention is the company's un-willingness to compromise. But it's not just the company that needs to compromise. The Union needs to too.

    From what I understand, it seems like the company is saying they won't negotiate unless the Union accepts their concessions. But the Union won't accept the concessions. So here is your impass. It's not just Vale. It's both sides.

    Like I said. I think BOTH sides need to forget the past contracts, and come back to the table witout ANY pre-conditions...and that goes for Vale AND the Union. Start from scratch. That might be the only way to get back to the table.

  • We need somebody who can broker some kind of return to the table
    --------------------

    Send in the A-team!

    "I pity the fool who don't negotiate"

    Shame Mr T "aint getting on no plane" though.

  • D. Laframboise, your "interpretation" of the situation is the same dichotomy presented by the USW leadership everytime they open their mouths.

    Indeed - negotiations involve compromise on both sides. But is it not the UNION who insists on no takeaways, no concessions? They adamantly refuse to do so. How is this negotiation? If you only stand to gain, how is that compromise?

    That is the point I made earlier, and it seems to be the point you are missing. No "truth" has been exposed.

    We all know the company needs to back down on their absolute insistence that ALL three of their major concessions need to be agreed to before negotiations begin. That equally stupid. You don't negotiate before you negotiate. But the union has to agree to at least talk about them. And the way I interpret everything I've read, it seems clear they won't.

    Don't try to paint the union as heroes - they are no better than the company. It's the workers who are getting squeezed, and I feel terrible for them. I don't wish anybody ill.

    We need somebody who can broker some kind of return to the table.

  • The way I interperate all this is the union is saying it wants to bargain but the company is not willing to budge from the original offer. Negotiations involve compromise on both sides. To me it doesn't seem like the company is willing to compromise, therefore not willing to negotitate. The company can try and spin this all they want, but the truth has now been exposed.

  • Correct me if I'm wrong. But I think that both sides are being stubborn. The company is saying that there's no point in negotiating unless the Union accepts the concessions that they outlined in the contract. However, the Union is also being stubborn by saying that they won't accept concessions. So doesn't that show that both sides are at an impass???

    I think that it's time that BOTH sides go back to the table, however VALE should realize that what they want might not be what they can get, and the Union should realize that what they want is not going to happen either. Both sides need to give and take on all the issues.

  • schmeducated, if that is the first time you seen it spelt VEIL, then you certainly are not oh here very often..

    Is that typical of you? Joining in a conversation half way through?

  • Jakstr, Vale is not stupid, they know strike coming and they alredy calculated to survive through it, not the poor workers especially when union told them that vale will cry if strike ends before end of summer because of no nickels. Come on, who need nickels now? Vale is not inco, it won't collapse because it's new nickels mine is running next month. Why bother paying you guys? That salaries can pay more than 20000 workers in 3rd world

  • Is your union boss that takes away your bread and butter, someone that you keep paying your dues, someone that you thought to be proctected, but you were sacrificed because of the ego leader underestimated this strike and to know that Sudbury just 4% of vale global operation. Your ego leader should admit making miscalculation and apologize to you...

  • I am not a pro vale blogger, calm down and analyse what had happened scientifically and you will understand!!! The community supports individual strikers including myself, bt not the union and some thugs behind it, this is the points!!

  • Always the same bunch of pro vale bloggers on these sites. Don't you have anything better to do than fight common sense?? If I imposed taking away your bread and butter how would you feel?? There are about 20 of you re-curring pro vale bloggers between this site and the Sudbury Stars site. Do you really think you represent the majority of the community?? We see who you are, over and over again. The truth is Vale is BAD, Very BAD. Why is this so hard to understand??? Stay Strong 6500, Stay Strong.

  • Laideextrata, your statement is very irresponsible and stupid, it shows that you do not understand the current economy and how our government has been working hard to help us, there is nowhere to help every single person. Also unions crippled the national economy because they are run by no brainer and people that do not received higher education. You think Walmart can be so successful and offer good deals if it is unionized ?
    Also seeing the maple leaf flag behind Fera is an insult to our soldiers in overseas, union just like whole bunch of terrorists acting like thenational heroes to fight for their interests....if you do not like your jobs, stop crying like a baby, just quit and get a job elsewhere, do not hold the community as hostages and asking business owners to display the signboard to support strike or poisoning children to push Vale....

  • For anyone posting comments bashing the union or bashing the company....Here is something we can all agree on. The quality of life of lower and middle class Canadians is slowly slipping away....little by little we are giving up our freedoms. Unfortunately we have too much to loose...We sit in our homes and we watch CSI or Dancing with the Stars. Or maybe we watch the most powerfull propaganda tool of all....the news. Meanwhile our government is running a record deficit, slapping us with hefty taxes(hst) and selling off crucial crown assets(crown candu reactors)to foreign corporations. They are selling off our natural resources as we've seen in Sudbury with Vale and Xstrata. So support this fight...support the union ...because what they are fighting for is what many other Canadians have already lost.... If all Canadians were to stand up and fight for a better tommorow (by protesting) we would be living in a much better country than we are now my friends. CASE CLOSED

  • By what, commenting on the articles? No, I don't usually delve into the depths of intellectualism shown on these comment boxes. Are you trying to attack me personally? I wish I could hear what your saying but I guess my advanced education is clogging my ears.

  • schmeducated, if that is the first time you seen it spelt VEIL, then you certainly are not oh here very often..

    Is that typical of you? Joining in a conversation half way through?

  • This strike is getting more and more ugly. The concessions that Vale has asked for would be readily accepted by anyone job hunting in todays market. If this situation goes to arbitration, at least some of these concessions will be granted.
    Vale has taken a stand and is not backing down. So has the Union. Unfortunately for the Union, Vale is THE BOSS. As such, they have the right to manage their own business as they see fit. As long as they are complying with government rules they are in a position to do so.

  • And you guys work for the "corprate trash" so what does that make you?

    Both sides have dug in and neither want (at this point) to be the 1st to budge on their demands......

    So until one side does there won't be any negotations PERIOD.

  • The union has been more than patient during this labour dispute. This company along with there spineless leaders have been exposed as the corporate trash that they are. Now hopefully the the government will intervene or a bad faith bargaining complaint will be filed. Hopefully this will now put an an end to this rediculous dispute started by one of the dumbest business men to ever walk the face of the earth.

  • it's not the love-in with Vale that these people have it is the hate-in for what other people have like "DB pension"

  • I'll never understand the outright hatred these "regular contributors” have for the Steelworkers. I mean the personal messages such as “Enjoy your winter” and such. The union is trying to maintain a standard of living which they have negotiated in the past. You may not like the nickel bonus system, but remember this; when the workers are making a bonus, Vale is making huge dollars.

    I also don’t understand the love-in with Vale that the regular contributors have. Vale is here to suck the region dry and leave. It may take several years or decades, but it will happen. Vale wants to bring all its labour interests worldwide to the same level. That’s not a Sudbury level or even a North American level. They want a level where workers don’t make enough to own a car. Where health and safety isn’t a consideration. Where skilled labour doesn’t exist.

    To the regular contributors: Enjoy YOUR winter, spewing vitriol at every news story that appears online.

  • These letters had to be done in this manner to prove bad faith bargaining. Now when the complaint is filed the company cannot cry that they "tried" to bargain. It's black and white now. By forcing a DC pension with no formula is bad faith bargaining on its own full well knowing it's going to force a strike. Now this lost production is going as a write off and when they get a sizeable tax return from our government it'll be forwarded to the VB plant and we as taxpayers are paying for it!

    This should be an easy win in labour court and they should be charged for tax fraud after. Technically speeking we should be given back our lost wages for bad faith bargaining, but who knows, maybe these "legislative commitments" are the dirty politicians they bought off so this doesn't happen. I guess we'll see!!!!!!

    The writing was on the wall for a couple of years, we're very well prepared for this. If you gutless AFI/vale bloggers think for one minute we're all going to freeze to death in snowbanks because of this you're surely mistaken. There's more jobs out there and more coming up daily, if you want one, they're there! Vale's no godsend by any stretch, just another fish in the water. Many have quit already, and many are waiting for a signing bonus to quit on Monday morning after this is done.

    They're acting like the big bully on the block, but when shares drop, nickel stores dissapear the investors who put out the 19 Billion will want their money back and they call the shots, not Roger! You see, they can't shut us out permanently, what will an investor think after forking out that kind of loot to see Roger shut the door? It's all in the timing, and I bought a lot of it just for this!

  • I'm starting to think that the union should take the concessions that the company wants and demand atleast a $10 dollar an hour raise in return. This is a lousy company that has a horrible leader, Roger Agnelli. I wouldn't trust them to manage my pension. And they will most likely "cook their books" in order to not have to pay any nickel bonus in the future.

  • We TOLD you.....Many times. Vale has been lying since day one through Steve and Cory. Imagine..the company is saying, "just agree with us and we will start to negotiate". Well, we have to do what is neccessary to educate the public and Vale. Merry Christmas to all of my Brothers and Sisters and families..One day longer!!!

  • Uneducated?..thats laughable. Your one of the first i've ever seen spell it VEIL. Obviously it is a very insignificant "insult". Spent a little too much time below ground? Quit worrying about insults and embarrassing yourselves and start worrying about getting back to the table.

  • 8 billion in 5 years on infrastructure, legislative commitments, and new mining ventures. I know Vale has to meet regulations concerning air quality. So far the only thing they have done is ask for an extension. But the new mining ventures is interesting. I thought all the ore is running out in sudbury and its not sustainable? By the sounds of it they are going to start a new mine or perhaps go ahead with the copper cliff deep project. The company should be talking about their plans for the future rather then hiding like cowards.

  • Vale has been bargaining in bad faith right since the begining. Ever since Roger Agnelli claimed that vale inco isn't sustainable, without providing any proof to back up his claim. The vale quarterly reports certainly paint a different picture then the one Roger Agnelli is trying to sell to the union and sudbury. Where's Roger Agnelli hiding today? It is not a wise business decision to start a labour dispute and then run away to hide like a coward without backing up your statements with any proof. Roger Agnelli's lack of intelligence, and experience is really starting to show.

    Vale has hired a lawyer to do the negotiating for them and he doesn't even know what he's talking about. He says he thinks the company is going to have to spend 8 billion on infrastructure, legislative commitments and new mining ventures over the next five years. Yet he doesn't comment on the amount of return that Vale will get on their investment. Why doesn't someone FROM THE COMPANY sit down with the union and provide them with proof that the company isn't sustainable? I'm sure the members of the union would be willing to take concessions if the company could prove to them that they are necessary. Either provide proof, or take away the pre-conditions to negotiations.

  • i wonder when this farce is going to be over.the union accuses vale of refusing to bargain with them,so what are they going to do?do you want to work or don't you? it's obviously your move,guys.

  • And this country doesn't have its rich and poor? Look around.

  • The only person enjoying this comedy is the lawyer for Vale, because the longer the strikers stay out the more money he makes...have a good winter guys...the good news is you will be fishing this spring...the bad news you will be fishing on the dock because the bank took your truck,boat and all the toys...

  • Beware people... the next companies the government will sell are the liquor stores and anything else we own. CANADA WILL NO LONGER EXIST nor will they fight for you . We will all be accountable to a foreign country and lets see what all you nay sayers responses are then when your jobs are gone.Lets not forget those countries have the rich and the very poor. Welcome to their world.

  • ONCE AGAIN, I have to educate the uneducated..
    Pay particular attention to how many of the strikers spell VEIL..
    IT is a reflection of our lack of respect to even call them by their chosen name..
    As for enjoying the winter, I am thank you. :-) Soon ice fishing will open up. The ice huts will be out, and the time off is irreplaceable.. Isn't life great??

  • For gods sake its VALE. You don't even know the name of the company giving you all these "lies" and "hardship"? Pure ignorance. Enjoy your winter.

  • You people are so ignorant of how things are in the "real world"..
    VEIL doesn't want us working right now, That is the only reason we are out.. NO OTHER it has so little to do with the contract.. When they are ready to start up, and done with their "realignment" we will be graciously asked to come back. And for those that still don't get it, the USW Strikers are disgruntled, but NOT with the Union, we are disgruntled with VEIL. Period..
    I hope you get this through your skull.. We have posted in the blogs for months, we have explained it over and over again.. YET, we are asked the same questions over and over..
    All I can say, is pay attention.. Learn what is happening in Sudbury with VEIL, and be prepared for where YOU work, for things to change..

  • This is ridiculous.

    The problem here is that old school union goofs like Fera came up at a time when "negotiation" meant "what do we get?"

    Vale is in a whole different league. What they are saying is simple - you want to bargain, we'll bargain for REAL. You are going to lose some to gain some, but you ARE going to give something up, and there is no point in coming back until that is very clear.

    It sounds hard assed, but that is how it is done in the real world.

    I never thought we should sell our resources to foreigners, but that deal is done.

    Reality check time guys - your kids are going to remember this as the year YOU didn't put anything under the tree, and when it is all said and done, you WILL go back for less, ON TOP of what you've already lost.

    It was over before it started.

  • Sounds like its the union that are preventing negotiations to me, Inco wants to sit down and negotiate the pre conditions they laid out in the last offer.Union will have none of it. Suite them selfs. Good luck this winter boys, its going to be a long one.

  • sems pretty transparent to me. What the union were trying to prove here is beyond me though...

    We already know all of this - you want no concessions, the company want concessions. They have stated their reasons you have stated yours. Neither of you wants to budge so you're going to be out for a long time.

    The union will fold first - the members are already disgruntled.

  • God help the poor buggers "represented" by these people.

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