Vale Inco strike having 'profound and serious' impact on Sudbury: LU prof

Laurentian University economics professor David Leadbeater was one of the participants in a panel about the Vale Inco strike at the university Nov. 25. Photo by Heidi Ulrichsen.

Laurentian University economics professor David Leadbeater was one of the participants in a panel about the Vale Inco strike at the university Nov. 25. Photo by Heidi Ulrichsen.

Nov 26, 2009- 10:54 AM

By: Sudbury Northern Life Staff

The impact of the strike involving more than 3,000 members of Steelworkers Local 6500 is “profound and serious” for both those directly involved and the Sudbury community at large, according to a Laurentian University economics professor.

David Leadbeater said while it is true that the mining industry has changed so that it employs a much smaller percentage of the working population, Sudbury is still largely a mining community.

“The vast majority of the investment and the vast majority of the GDP depends on the mining industry,” he said.

Leadbeater, along with fellow Laurentian economics professor David Robinson, and City of Greater Sudbury business development officer Paul Reid, participated in a panel discussion about the impact of the Vale Inco strike at the university Nov. 25.

Local 6500 members, who usually make between $20 and $30 an hour, are now bringing in $200 a week in strike pay, which amounts to less than the minimum wage, he said.

“This is a huge hit to those families,” Leadbeater said.

Vale Inco is attempting to “fundamentally weaken the union, and to break it if necessary,” he said.

“Why do they want to break the union? Well, obviously it's to gain an upper hand, to set conditions, to make more profits, to take more out of this city and give back less,” Leadbeater said.

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76 Comments

  • The unionists act like they built this city and mined for free.
    They were fairly compensated, with wages and benefits, over the years. When the mining companies lost millions in the many downturns, we didn't see one 'city builder' take any concessions. Unions always ask for more. This time they chose the wrong time to put up a losing fight.

    Give the martyrdom a rest.

  • Well Jude
    My father was a crackerjack miner at the Hollinger Gold Mine in Timmins. I know guys (one or two are all that're left) who built the Uranium Mines in Elliot Lake.
    What's your point?
    Inco made it possible for YOU to be here today!

  • Well.'drifter',my father was a crackerjack hardrock miner.He was one of the thousands of men who 'built' Inco.He is one of the men who made it possible for Vale AND you..............to be here today.

  • I know what you mean Judy........
    I remember the days when Inco produced 90% of the worlds nickel......now its between 10 & 12 (or was!)
    I remember the days when Local 6500 represented the production of 80 of Inco's cash flow.......now it's between 4 and 5% of Vale Inco's income
    I remember when Local 6500 was the heart of USW of America and was treated with respect and admiration......now its just a pawn to be played in Leo Gerards global poker game to increase the income to Pittsburgh.........

    Doom and gloom.........Gloom and doom!!!!!!!
    It's not your Fathers Sudbury Judy!

  • There's another 4000 tonnes of nickel added to the LME Warehouse. Vale Inco is NOT GOING TO START PRODUCING FROM SUDBURY until this inventory is depleted to the level of 2.5 years ago where it ran about 10 thousand tonnes. Its 140,000 tonnes now.

    Sudbury nickel isn't required anymore. It cheaper from Norilsk in Russia or the laterite mines in the SP and Brazil.

    It's over guys......just like Elliot Lake and Lynn Lake and Hemlo and a dozen other mining camps. Sudbury's done unless there's another big demand for nickel.......but Vale Inco have a lot of new production coming on line so that may not be of any help.

    Sell your house......move into Dad's basement guys...liquidate before the flood.

  • Well thanks for that facsinating post then overpaid..
    was vey useful

  • Things are getting "worser" for Local 6500.
    Price for nickel continues to trend downward and just today someone dumped 2000 tonnes into the LME Warehouse.

    If Leo Gerard himself crawled on his hands and knees into the Copper Cliff offices crying "Mea Culpa Steve", I don't think Vale would let Local 6500 back to work. The price is on the verge of collapse and Vale have low cost Goro and Brazilian laterite mines coming on stream soon and they have to get as much as they can from the Goro nickel to pay for the huge capital cost.

    As Garge would say, "The arse is out of 'er byes!"

  • uninvolved-i don't think i need either, the desert is east!

  • Are you looking for a spelling lesson or geography lesson overpaid?

  • #1 I don't ever recall anyone claiming that we are treated as slaves at Vale
    #2 Vale through some recent actions of theirs prior to the strike have given me reasons not to trust them. My union although not perfect has not therefore I choose to trust them instead.
    #3 The strike has not been that long, patience people the cold weather is coming, 2020 contract is in February.

  • @drifter- i know your little group of "contacts" at tim's in chemmy. now correct me if i'm wrong, but, haven't some of them been recently terminated from vale??
    sounds like you got some pretty reliable sources.

  • @uninvolved- how's the desert?

  • Drifter..
    I don;t want to get my contract in trouble..but I emailed a couple people as well who are : well lets say pretty senior:

    I too wish to show how people like 'Mario' are just laid off x-inco/vale workers who are angry, and likely are trying now to finish their grade 12 at the age of 55.

  • person: you were so appalled because some little girl was looking to raise money for "sudbury working families". Just because her dad is on strike didn't mean the money was necessarily for her and her family. You do realise that the other people that ask for money (hockey teams, dance squads, etc) have parents that are doctors, teachers, officers, etc...but you still donate to them???

    As for your comment "the strike is only in its fifth month" well...i'd like to see how well you'd do without a paycheck for 5 months. Also, let me ask you this...how much money do you donate to local charities in Sudbury???? I guarentee it's no where close to what myself and the other steelworkers donate. When we're making money the community prospers from it and this includes the charities in the city.

    For the record...I am a proud striker and I will continue to drive my SUV during the strike! And even though I am on strike...I'll still probably throw you a toonie when you squeegy my windows at an intersection downtown.

    YOU disgust me!

  • Yes I heard the same story about the futureshop.

    Does this suprise anybody?
    Of course not.
    When you are trailer park trash, this is the type of thing you do....


    and 'kiss'...you seem to like refeing to Poles alot:
    Judy is offering help: maybe she can explain the birds and the bees to you using pictographs...

    You know..the pictographs they use to train USW members..

    THIS IS A BIRD
    THIS IS A BOX
    THIS IS A BRICK

  • @person, I will drive by and see if this is true. If it is I'm truly embarrassed.

    But stop your lies person get your facts straight, we do not line up at the Food Bank. We have our own set up at the Steel Hall. We get donations which is none of your business would also like to add that some of those donations are from USW members themselves. The reason being that they realize that young families suffer the most as opposed to some who's mortgage is already paid off etc..

  • Since there seems to be alot of pride among you strikers, let me tell you just how appalled I am with the lot of you:
    At the Future Shop, there was a girl sitting at the door(a daughter of a striker, I asked if her dad was on strike and she said yes), asking for money to support "The Working Families of Sudbury"! Are you kidding me!!! The strike is only into the 5th month and you PROUD strikers have your children BEGGING for money on your behalf! Do you see the children of people who make minimum or just above it, sitting at the doors of stores asking for money on their parents behalf? In SUDBURY!!!! Well! Proud strikers of Sudbury, with all of your DIGNITY AND INTEGRITY, stand at the doors of shops and beg for your own money, then drive your SUV's, next to new cars/trucks home and count your own "Hard Working Cash"!!!! You pigs!!! Disgusting!!!! Let me make this real clear: I WILL NEVER GIVE A DIME TO THE STRIKERS!!!! It was up to all of you to put away some of those bonuses that you got over the past three years and save up!!!! You should be ashamed of yourselves! Lining up at the Food Bank like you deserve to be there! Shame on you!

  • actually jude...
    if your a steelworker...its likely best your DONT get on the stage..

    its an imaget that would truley damage labour relations for years to come...

  • Proud to be a 6500 USW member!

  • Isn't blogging fun? Maybe we should all get cb radio and have a channel dedicated to the strike.

  • 'Uninvolved',you have an uncanny way of coming up with the most convoluted 'logic' i have ever seen.Its amazing how you twisted Mario's comments to suit your needs

    If 'mario' and 'Hey jude'seem angry,i dont blame them..........considering the nonsense they put up with coming from you.

  • Well Judy, there are actually several doctors of east indian decent on this lake to be honest so I am not really sure. Why you looking for a doctor?

    Now if sad unemployed people would read, I never once insulted any workers.As far as Mario goes, he is clearly and angry old man with deep anger issues...

    Not much we can do for him.

    And Judy? Well....anyone with that deep sense of entitlement clearly has regrets that they need to address


    sad really

  • Mario my old buddy...I can't blame you for getting so frustrated with the increasing number of morons who have to put forth their unwelcomed opinions in such a poor manner.This UNINVOLVED flake who wants to put forward his view on the situation as a whole, (and who is entitled to his opinion),should just give it up for lack of a brain and a little common sense.As much as the anti-union bloggers claim that everyone involved in the union has this profound sense of entitlement, isn't it funny that they all seem to purport to be RICH, and try to put down the working man as an unthinking idiot, incapable of being anything BUT a union worker.It always rolls around to this, blog after blog.

  • 200,000Hmmm Didn't know hooking paid that well. You should explain that to judge judy, she may want to change to what your sons do lol

  • I honestly don't get why you think I am angry. I am barely involved with the union other than fullfill my "picketing duties". I don't know why everyone went online claiming and/or wanting public support. It sure heck doesn't matter to me and don't think it matters to Vale either. I agree with one blogger, 1/3 support us, 1/3 don't and 1/3 don't care. It is just that "condescending behaviours" is one of my pet peeve.

  • Sorry judy
    My point (which clearly you miss) is that people are not jealous of those on strike.

    And, when your missing pay from the strike is factored in: i find it hard to beleive anyone is actually jealous of you.

    In fact..I can assure you: few are.

    And..my neighbour a few doors down is in fact a contract miner: well now a supervisor with a contractor: and he is on the lake: and we have beers and out kids swim together all the time..you seem to want people to be jealous...and they simply are not


    You miss the point my angry little friend...

    You are clearly just very very angry

  • Just in case you didn't know, 200$ is strike pay this is not what we usually make. When someone is irritated because a blue collar worker can afford a house next to a doctor on a lake, that tells me there is a condescending attitude as well as jealousy.

  • oh well Judy.
    Its your choice.

    Myself and my wife are getting our usual pays: She is a health care executive and i own a company

    we never sit and complain: we dont hand control of our lives to others, and we sacrifice to get where we are:

    True.,..blue collar gets an pretty easy ride with good wages : and I really am glad people like you can get good lives..

    but..to say people aer jealous and must support you is simply shooting yourselves in the foot.

  • I think judy you simply have to accept the fact that your employement choice has a trade off: good blue collar wages yes: but zero control of your ability to grow as a person.

    Thats what union blue collar is all about. USW, CAW: people who in life never wanted to work hard in the early stages of life, but are now so jealous of those who took control of their lives...and now want it all.

    Its sad actually to see 3000 grown adults act like this...very very sad...

  • See judy
    there you go again

    First, you are not making a better living most: you make $200 a week:

    NExt, the union wages are public: we can see them:
    Thats a commmon theme: USW strikers claiming people are jealous. At those wages, I can asuure you I am not one of them. The wage would not even pay for my car lease.

    I think you need to keep saying that to reinforce your own decisions in life. It is clear that is why so many strikers say that.

    I find it funny.

  • With my seniority maybe it would have been better for me to accept the contract as I may not be affected by Vale's grand plan, I don't know? So you cannot accuse me of claiming to be wise and all knowing. But what I do notice is that some white collar people are very condescending towards blue collars. I think the reason for this is that it upsets you that we are making a better living than some of you and I don't blame you guys, it is human nature. If we were in your shoes we would probably be arguing all the same facts. As far as knowing more than managers, I have never claimed this but since you bring it up there are some smart managers but there are also duds as well, even the lower rank staff will tell you so.

  • Judy

    If these workers are so all-knowing, and so educated as you claim: why don't they leave the jobs and employer they hate so much and go elsewhere?

    Look at Mario: all he seems to do is complain: he admits to complaining and 'hardships' for his and his childerns entire life: but they simply sit there, and complain rather than changing their life..


    Sounds alot like you actually

  • First,
    5:30 is my normal wake up time as I own a company and check my maik every morning: thanks so much for the advice.

    Judy, I think your comment sot @phil show the typical 'victim' 'I know more than the manager' attitude.

    That seems very common among the strikers.

    It seems to be in aligment with the 'entitlement' attitude. The strikers want all the rewards of those that run the company, but without the sacrifices of education, career building, and risk in the form of captial investment.

    Very typical Juy

  • uninvolved, go to bed by the timing of your posts it is obvious you have been up all night drinking kool aid

  • After reading your post Mario, I have little sympathy for you.
    I have so many posts from people stating they are fighting against the 'evil' Vale and in your example Falconbridge/xtrata. Yet, you actually did little to disuade your childern from the same careers that you keep claiming are dangerous, and poorly renurmated.

    Funny, I always thought we worked hard so our childern would be BETTER than us.

    Sudbury seems to have such an entitlement attitude towards the mines. The truely seem to feel its the Mining companys roll to provide future generations with employement.

    What I also so is constant reference to people who are 'jealous' of the strikers.

    I find this so funny: I think the opposite is quite true. I think the strikers are jealous of those of us who have broken from the 'entitlement' attitude with education, advancement, and most important, ownership of one's future rather than handing that ownership to both a union and a company.

    I think thats why the strikers are so angry. The are jealous.

  • "Im a regular writer,although i remove myself for periods of ​t​i​m​e​.​.​.​.​.​.​.​.​m​a​i​n​l​y​ ​d​u​e​ ​t​o​ ​f​r​u​s​t​r​a​t​i​o​n​."
    -It's tough being outed as a blind unionist and constantly wrong. We understand that takes it's toll and you need to bail to regain some composure.

    And another jewel from Mario:
    "I ​m​ ​r​e​t​i​r​e​d​ ​f​r​o​m​ ​F​a​l​c​o​n​b​r​i​d​g​e​,​a​n​d​ ​m​y​ ​s​o​n​s​ ​a​r​e​ ​n​o​w​ ​f​o​u​r​t​h​ ​g​e​n​e​r​a​t​i​o​n​ ​o​f​ ​m​e​n​ ​w​h​o​ ​h​a​v​e​ ​w​o​r​k​e​d​ ​i​n​ ​t​h​e​ ​m​i​n​e​s​.​S​e​v​e​n​t​y​ ​f​i​v​e​ ​y​e​a​r​s​ ​o​f​ ​b​a​t​t​l​e​s​.​.​.​.​.​.​.​.​s​t​r​i​k​e​s​,​l​a​y​o​f​f​s​,​s​h​u​t​d ​o​w​n​s​,​t​a​k​e​s​ ​i​t​s​ ​t​o​l​l​.​B​e​l​i​e​v​e​ ​m​e​,​i​t​s​ ​n​o​ ​p​i​c​n​i​c​ ​a​t​ ​t​i​m​e​s"

    Despite all the writing on the wall. Layoffs, strikes, labour disputes, cyclical nature of metals markets, and the obvious + continuous downsizing of Inco and Falco, you steered your family into mining for a career.
    Ignoring the past for a quick buck and gambling your futures. Brilliant.
    The only person to blame for poor career choices and counselling is right there in the mirror Mr.Mario.
    Many people, myself included chose to heed the warnings of the past and learned the lessons. We avoided mining and took the hard road. Now it's paying off. Ebay and classified bargains are just the icing on the cake.
    Nice going dad. I'm sure you'll need another hiatus to recover from this dose of reality.

  • If enough of us believe, a new thing can be made to exist. Belief structure creates a filter through which chaos is sifted into order. Many people have died for their beliefs. The real courage is living and suffering for what you believe. According to politician, big business and CAS..the majority is never right. That's one of the lies in society that no free and intelligent man can help rebelling against. Who are the people that make up the biggest proportion of the population -- the intelligent ones or the fools? Thats for members of 6500 to decide.

  • Unfortunalty Maximvs thats how our society is now days. No one beleives in being an honest hard worker anymore. It's quite sad isn't it.

    We have Vale sying we can't give these miners status quo because it will cut into the billions of dollars in profits Vale makes each quater.

    I can't understand how people can sit back and say that Inco miners are idiots to go on strike now, fighting for something that won't affect them...It is something that will affect our sons, our daughters, our nieces, or nephews our grandchildren, these miners are fighting for them, for the future of Vale Inco.

  • losing hope.."the truth to make a story ( or case) more interesting or profitable seems to be the norm these days"...hopefully the days for Ontario's CAS's are numbered and unaccountability no longer the norm. The same goes for our governments role in the supervision of the Valle sale.
    beefy..To some who've attained a Phd and still behave badly is a discredit to our educational system.

  • Phillip Morris...

    I don't trust Fera but I do trust my family members that are on strike. Fera gets paid to say what he does...so does the Vale spokes people.

    Hell I don't even trust half of what is written by these reporters or what is said on the news. Why bother...truth only sells when it is devastating...twisting the truth to make a story more interesting or profitable seems to be the norm these days.

  • A typical, one sided, socialist slant from a university 'expert'

    Phillippe Morphous, what are your credentials?

  • "The impact of the strike involving more than 3,000 members of Steelworkers Local 6500 is “profound and serious” for both those directly involved and the Sudbury community at large, according to a Laurentian University economics professor and that it employs a much smaller percentage of the working population, Sudbury is still largely a mining community".... What does largely mean? If we were to divide Sudbury's working population there would be the mining industry, education, governemt (legal industry). I would wager that there are more than 3000 lawyers, police, secretaries, judges, jail staff, court reporters, CAS workers etc than any other working group in Sudbury. and all make more than $20 and $30 an hour.
    When he said “The vast majority of the investment and the vast majority of the GDP depends on the mining industry,” This is obvious because we cannot invest in governemt (legal industry) or export it to other countries. This legal industry and its abuse evolved because of the good paying jobs in Sudbury. The legal industry takes advantage of that and rivals if not exceeds the numbers of Valle.
    "Leadbeater, along with fellow Laurentian economics professor David Robinson, and City of Greater Sudbury business development officer Paul Reid, participated in a panel discussion"...... and nobody seemed to mention the role and effect of the actions government or big business.
    When the panel said “Why do they want to break the union? Well, obviously it's to gain an upper hand, to set conditions, to make more profits, to take more out of this city and give back less" Thats what I call one effective panel discussion.

  • However Vale deals with 6500 doesn't reflect on how friendly Sudbury is.

    As for Sudbury not supporting 6500 making them not so friendly, well, it's one thing to wish harm, it's another to have a differing opinion. Differing opinions don't make Sudburians less friendly. 6500 would still be getting the same wages with the offered contract. It's hard for the community to back the union because of that. Doesn't make them unfriendly, just allows them to judge the situation for themselves.

    6500's pensions are safe, with any new hires paying in for their pensions, there's a reasonable cap on the nickel bonus (20% of their quarterly salary, which is still a nice bonus). On top of that, Vale DID offer gains (many strike supporters on here like to leave that part out). Parental leave, Bereavement leave, ability to split vacations in 3 parts/year, family day recognized as a holiday, eliminating extra billing by dentists, improved pregnancy leave *deeeep breath* and that's not all.

    Oh, and for people wanting to reply about the new pension type for new hires, saying they're protecting their son's future, don't. I hate nepotism. Also, don't bring up the past strikes of Inco and those workers fighting for your pensions, because the Inco of new doesn't even compare to the Inco of old when it comes to cornering the nickel market, sad to say.

  • Wasn't Sudbury named one of Canada's friendliest cities of 2008?
    Reading these blogs would lead me to think that we've tied with Winnipeg(rock bottom).
    Give local 6500 a fair deal.
    What will Sudbury see from Vale's $7,000,000.00 US daily profits?
    "Peanuts!"

  • Hey......aren't these the same eggheads who said the strike was costing Sudbury $XXXXXXXX a month?
    when I worked that number out each Inco employee had to be clearing and spending $59/hr in Sudbury?

    These guys may have spent a lot of time getting degrees but they didn't spend a lot of time getting smart.

  • Oh and Jude..

    You said '........its NONE of your business what YOU think'

    Actually....it most certainly is my business what I think.

  • feuding

    sorry: small keyboard

  • Oh..and I am not fedding with with Jude.

    That person is just angry
    I am just sitting here making supper for the kids with a glass of wine reading the news on my notebook.

  • Mario

    not once did I call a striker a name.
    Nor did I ever call a striker lazy.

    In fact, until I was 32 I workerd underground at several mines. I went back to university and changed directions quite a bit. Many of friends are still miners....but not in Sudbury.

    I was non union though and worked for both contractors at a remote mine for the company.

    The workers I support to be honest: The union leadership I think is failling the workers.

    VALE is here to stay. ITs their company, its their mines.
    The union needs to be smart about negotiating. VALE will not change its mine, and I feel bad for the workers as they are being mislead by their leaders.

    Jude represents the type of USW supporter that COSTS PUBLIC support: Angry and ranting.

    I may be anti union: but I am pro 'get what you can out of life' including from you job.

    But..one can be proworker without being prounion..

  • First Jude..

    You are clearly a very angry person.
    If you read my post: I never once told the USW what to do.
    Next, I stated VERY clearly it was their call.
    Next..yes USW member complain about politians ALL THE TIME!

    Next...I never once said 'I think the pension plan should be this': I simply pointed out that there is ZERO degrading about a DC pension..and that the USW does its self no favours with it inaccurate propoganda.

    You are a very angry person..and you clearly do no read the posts : you just get angry when some has a different point of view;

    Next: Mario...first in terms of the books: VALE is as honestas the laws regarding public disclsure dictate they must be. Those laws in Canada have been establish over generations BY YOUR GOVERNMENT.

    And.,..anyway: VALE doesn't profess to be the moral standards bearers....where the USW does. THe USW trys to make its self out to represent the dreams and goals of Canadians....

    IT does not: most Canadians wish to represent THEMSELVES: not put their future in the hands of union leaders..

    Mario, Jude: get off you anger wagon.

  • Well,'uninvolved',perhaps i can shed a little light on your 'feud' with 'hey jude'.......considering this is your first forray into these 'debates'

    Im a regular writer,although i remove myself for periods of time........mainly due to frustration.

    I can understand 'hey jude's' attitude towards you.For nearly five months,the strikers have been deluged with a barrage of insults and denigrating comments."Lazy,greedy,selfish,overpaid'are comments heard on a regular basis.

    Hoping the strikers lose their homes,cars,boats,toys......so they can be purchased on ebay at a cheap price are regular comments.Wishing doom and gloom,and hoping they all lose their jobs.......is a regular chant from the same group of people,who you will see on a daily basis........spewing their venom.Its 'humanity'........at its finest.

    Now,in all honesty,you HAVE NOT displayed any of this vindictiveness [is that how you spell that?]......YET.

    However,going by the precedent set........the writing is perhaps on the wall.

    Im retired from Falconbridge,and my sons are now fourth generation of men who have worked in the mines.Seventy five years of battles........strikes,layoffs,shutdowns,takes its toll.Believe me,its no picnic at times

    The last thing the strikers need is a deluge of demeaning name calling and insults.

    Im sure you understand this...........if not,well..........

  • Hey losinghope...

    How do YOU know that the Steelworkers are being 100% honest with its members?

    Seems that this strike has become about pride, rhetoric, and global unionization rather than a decent living during a global economic collapse......

  • Mario

    You are so very right.

    uninvolved

    How do you know that Vale is being 100% honest with the public?

  • "its NONE of your business what YOU think the pension plan should be.This is strictly between the workers and the company."

    Fair enough, but that would have to work both ways.

    What I mean by that is, 6500 leaders can't complain to the press about community support, because it's none of our business what pension the workers get. None of this "Our pension goes back to the community!". If 6500 wants to use that argument, then their pensions ARE the community's business.

    At least Uninvolved is actually taking the time to research BOTH sides (going to 6500's and Vale's websites to read the contract).

  • 'Uninvolved',my point is this........its NONE of your business what YOU think the pension plan should be.This is strictly between the workers and the company.

    Your right,Sudbury is NOT the big nickel producer it was 20 years ago,BUT,Vale KNEW that when it purchased Inco.No one put a gun to their head.

    They came here promising prosperity for all,and a year later begin layoffs and asking for concessions.

    It also irks me,when people like you have the same standard comment..........we pay into our pensions,why shouldnt Vale workers?Well,friend,it is what it is.Do you hear strikers say.........Politicians get six figure pensions.......we want the same.Of course not.Every occupation has its own renumeration and benefits and pensions..........and miners have what they have.

    May i make a suggestion? When the day comes the steelworkers tell YOU how much money and pension you get,then perhaps you can 'dictate' what the miners should earn

  • MickeyMouse

    Thats something else I have noticed:
    Why is it when someone with intelligence in this town posts comments that are objectively pointing out issues, they are 'paid bloggers'.

    Whether or not a USW member wants to work for pay is nothing I could care about.

    I am simply pointing out the obvious.

    I hardly see hove posting my first blog of this entire strike makes me'fairly involved'. It took all of 45 second: So thats 45 seconds in 4 months.....

    Hmm.....doesnt seem very invloved to me

  • Hey uninvolved,

    For someone whom claims to be uninvolved by name seems to be fairly involved! Not to mention the fact that you seem to be over opinionated.....Professional Blogger Mabe?????

  • Sorry. Didnt mean to post all those times. Not sure what happened there.

  • Hey Jude.

    You seem angry. You are either a striker or the spouse of a striker. Am I correct??

  • Hey Jude.

    You seem angry. You are either a striker or the spouse of a striker. Am I correct??

  • Hey Jude.

    You seem angry. You are either a striker or the spouse of a striker. Am I correct??

  • By the way, in term of Revenue for VALE (not VALE INCO), goto the VALE web site: there are a public company and its not toooo hard to read.

  • hey jude

    what is the point of your statement.
    where do I mention the books of VALE.
    THe USW has nothing to do with the VALE books.
    You are making no sense.

    The USW has no rights to the financials of VALE.
    what exactly is your point?

  • 'Uninvolved'.........i assume this means.........YOU have access to Vale's books,and KNOW if they are profitable or not,AND what their long range plan should be?

    Funny how all the 'bystanders' have the 'inside' information

  • continued,.....

    This is not a social justice issue.
    Having employees make contribution to a pension does not undermine our socitey.

    If it did, then our entire RRSP system and 95 percent of the pensions would have to be undone.

    VALE is honest. THey say they need changes to be profitable in all cycles. Its clean, its simple, and their cards are on the table.

    The USW should do the same. This is about power for the leadeship, and personal gain for the members.

    The day the USW stops falsely stating they are fighting for society, the more people will give them the respect they so crave.

    As far as the workers go: well you are the master of your own destiny. Whether they work or not has no bearing on most Sudburians: and that also drives the USW crazy.

    Essentially....most Sudburians just dont care; they are not jealous, they are not resentful: they simply dont care. This is not the 1950,s 60s or 70s. Only 3000 people work at VALE with the USW. A small portion of the overall wage earninig in Sudbury.

    And thats the way it should be. Its the USW's fight. GO fight it honestly, and without drama-queens style tactics.

  • Mario

    Your bias is too heavy with anti-'corporation' anger.
    First, I went the the VALE site and looked at the offer.
    Then I went to the fairdeal site and read that.

    First, it is the business of the workers if they wish to strike. Its that simple. Regardless of ones opion on whether or not the union is the ideal tool for a workers who simply wants to work is not really the issue.


    The problem I have with people like this 'prof' of your comment, is the blantant attempt to try to put your heads into that of the company's execs and shareholders.

    Og course they want to maximize profits. Thats their job. The old INCO was no different: the real difference was the fact that with the old INCO, 95% of its revenue came from Sudbury; and a labour disruption actually had a dramatic effect on the bottom line. Therefore, INCO had not choice bu tto cave to union demands in the past.

    This lead to a sense of 'entitlemnent' and false confidence on the part of 6500. They truely felt that their cause was just, and tactics and negotiation style were effective. In other words, they were big frogs in the INCO pond.

    Enter VALE: (CVRD). Sudbury represents less than 5% of the revenue. They have a LEGAL right to operate on their own terms within the confines of the laws of Canada. This they are doing. No laws are being broken.

    Contrary to what some people write, not getting the contract you want is not illegal.

    The issue I actually have with all this is not related to the worker. It is their call on making their own decisions.

    The only thing that bothers me is the blatant attempt by the 'union' and now this ONE proff to make this a social justice issue.

    This is not a social justice issue.
    Having employees make contribution to a pension does not undermine our socitey.

    If it did, then our entire RRSP system and 95 percent of the pensions would have to be undone.

    VALE is honest. THey say they need changes to be profitabl

  • As much as i have tried to remove myself from this site,mainly out of frustration,i feel compelled to respond after reading the above story,both in the N.L. and S.S.

    These are NOT strikers,rather three highly respected,knowledgeble professionals,who can readily see how vale is trying to break the union.

    From day one,i tried to explain to everyone what was happening.It WASNT about money or benefits,it was JUST trying to take control of the workforce by eliminating the union.

    The scenario could not have been better for Vale.Nickel prices were low,nickel demand soft,the country was in the middle of a depression.So,whats the plan? Offer the workers a deal they cant possibly accept.....ie.....removal of the fully funded pension,which is literally sacred to the workers........and you just know there will be a strike.

    Then,the company sits back and waits.They know in a few months,many workers will be hurting,spinoff jobs will be lost,business 's will suffer and dissention will set in from all corners.Add to this the multitude of writers,who for whatever reason.........union haters,people jealous of the miners wages,those losing THEIR jobs because of the strike,etc..........and you will have a deluge of criticism towards the workers and union,and hopefully a breakup between them

    People who have been around the mines most of their lives KNEW this,but,of course,all the 'drifters' 'Mike k" and 'rightones' of the world couldnt wait to seize the moment and go for the 'jugular'

    I have NO doubt these same people will come back with their usual 'venom' towards this article.Fortunately,im a bit TOO 'wise' and 'experienced' to be 'conned' by them

    Lets hope my fellow Sudburians ALSO 'see the light'

  • This 'article' is a joke. It is so pro-labour biased.
    I can line experts up who will explain that VALE is simply trying to reduce the liability of the pension system which has crushed so many compnaies.

  • Jakstr

    Dont be a drama queen.

  • A typical, one sided, socialist slant from a university 'expert'.
    The same 'experts' that steered our global economy into the mess its current mess.
    If the Laurentian eggheads would take a step back, and see the entire picture here, the labour dispute is not Vale's fault. It take 2 to tango.
    What about the Steelworkers being too greedy in a recession? Asking for status quo when the Ontario Division is a money loser? They won't change. They chose to walk away from their jobs when other unions took minor cuts to survive for another day.
    Sorry professors, you can't see the forest for the trees here. And 6500 are the ones making the strike go on. Don't feel sorry for them and their 6 digit salaries from the last 3 years.

  • The Only positive impact this strike has is on my lungs. I feel great, I haven't been coughing up black goo, and I seem to be getting more oxygen that usual, If this strike keeps up I might just live an extra 15 years. Thanks Vale for helping me resurect my health. Without this strike who knows how long I would live.

  • These Laurentien professors with their comments about how bad the strike is on the community better wake up. Sudbury has been a union town for many years. A good thing for quite some time as these unions provided some advantages that may not have happened (such as bonuses, paid pensions). The unionize workers began to think that these advantages are owed to them and forgot that old adage: Easy Come, Easy Go! Sure, you went on strike for these advantages, however, the way business is conducted is changing, and one must be prepared for and be willing to make room for change. Whether it is Vale or any other company, the division between companies and unions was going to happen. It was just a matter of time. There are many people out in Sudbury that are more than willing to go work for $20 to $30/hour with having to pay into their own pensions. NO Bonus! Wake up guys. You are far from winning. Be prepared all you unionized borthers and sisters, as this battle is more than some "other country that bought a business in Canada", it is a premisis of what is yet to come. Union Sudbury cannot live in a bubble forever. Even Mr. Leadbeater is unionized. That says alot about his comments doesn't it. And in case he failed to notice, Vale has been giving alot to the city. Ask our mayor. If you can reach him. Be nice to know if the mayor is going on holidays this season. Say to Brazil? Hmmm...?

  • It's too bad that the Vale Inco workers don't have a real good union.It is certainly the union's fault that they are still on strike.Some of the guys on strike are working at some stores until the strike is over.They are very smart guys who know where to get a job.They are very good workers .I met a few of them in the store that I go shopping all the time.I go to Costco and Walmart and the stores are alway busy and I have no trouble finding a place to park.

  • Yeah Grumpy, but the Costco lot is always full. Same with Wal-Mart.
    How many big ticket items do you think are being sold right now? Less is the correct answer. Even when they get back to work, many will have a lot of catching up to do on their bills. That's less disposable income to go qround the community.
    Not to say that the INCO workers keep the wheel turning, but their wages do play a very important part in our local economy, like it or not. Take some away, and we are all losers in the end.
    Lets just all hope this ends soon.

  • Well - this past Sunday - just try and get a parking spot at Costco or the New sudbury Shopping Center.
    I'm don't know of one family truely inconvenienced by the strike - Can't think of one. Anyone I know that is on strike and wants to work - Is Working.
    It's not as doomy and gloomy as it is being made out to be.
    It's a cyclical inconvenience that we are conditoned for.

  • bout time someone said it, it had to be said: "Why do they want to break the union? Well, obviously it's to gain an upper hand, to set conditions, to make more profits, to take more out of this city and give back less".

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