Vale, USW eager for ‘day in court’

The Ontario Labour Relations Board has ordered representatives from Vale and United Steelworkers to attend a hearing regarding the issue of employees fired during the strike. File photo.

The Ontario Labour Relations Board has ordered representatives from Vale and United Steelworkers to attend a hearing regarding the issue of employees fired during the strike. File photo.

Aug 13, 2010- 8:52 AM

Union lawyer hopes for decision by October

By: Heidi Ulrichsen - Sudbury Northern Life Staff

The Ontario Labour Relations Board (OLRB) has ordered both Vale and the Steelworkers to present more evidence at further hearings regarding the matter of eight workers fired by the company.

The Steelworkers filed a bargaining in bad faith complaint with the OLRB, alleging that Vale’s refusal to allow the workers to go to arbitration to see if they’ll get their jobs back is a breach of its duty to bargain under the Ontario Labour Relations Act.

The OLRB has decided that the union has successfully pled a “prima facie” case, meaning that “on its face,” it has established that there is enough evidence to prove that there’s been a breach of the company’s duty to bargain, Brian Shell, the Steelworkers’ lawyer, said.

However, the OLRB still wants to hear Vale’s explanation of why it doesn’t want the workers’ fate to be decided by an arbitrator.

“Determination of whether Vale maintaining to impasse its position of refusing to agree to just cause arbitration for employees discharged while on strike was patently unreasonable or even objectively unreasonable requires consideration of any justification offered by Vale for taking this position,” the Aug. 12 ruling, which was given by OLRB vice-chair Ian Anderson, stated.

“The evidence which Vale seeks to lead is thus relevant and admissible.”

No hearing dates have yet been set by the OLRB. Shell said he expects that five to eight days of hearings will be necessary to deal with the matter.

He said the hearings will likely be scheduled for September, and will last into October. Shell said he hopes to know sometime in October whether or not the fired workers — which include Steelworkers Local 6500 vice-president Patrick Veinot and treasurer Jason Patterson — will have access to arbitration.

“... we are delighted Vale will have to face the scrutiny of the Board, in public, and try to explain away its arrogance and disrespect for the USW and for its own employees’ rights.

Wayne Fraser,
Steelworkers District 6 director

The union had initially hoped that it wouldn’t be necessary for further evidence to be presented for the OLRB.

However, Steelworkers District 6 director Wayne Fraser said in a press release that while the union would have “preferred the position that Vale’s conduct was per se illegal, ending the matter and bringing the eight discharged strikers to arbitration right away, we are delighted that Vale will have to face the scrutiny of the Board, in public, and try to explain away its arrogance and disrespect for the USW and for its own employees’ rights.”

Steelworkers Local 6500 president Rick Bertrand said because the union has a “just cause” provision in its collective agreement, Vale has no reasonable basis for refusing just cause arbitration to the eight discharged strikers.

“If what the fellows allegedly did was so bad, then they will be gone and the arbitrator will decide that,” he said.

“But they must have that opportunity, that day in court, so to speak. This union is committed to ensure that every one of the eight discharged strikers has their case heard, at arbitration. It is way beyond my understanding how a company can refuse this fundamental right.”

Vale put out a statement about the OLRB ruling Aug. 12, stating that the company is “pleased” with the board’s decision.

“We are confident that once the facts are fully presented, the union’s allegation of bad faith will be dismissed and the board will conclude that the company bargained in good faith throughout and made every reasonable effort to conclude a collective agreement,” the statement said.

“The terminations that occurred during the strike were for valid and considered reasons and in no way related to the collective bargaining process.”

Read More: Home > Sudbury News

Reader's Feedback

Editor’s Note:

NorthernLife.ca may contain content submitted by readers, usually in the form of article comments. All reader comments and any opinions, advice, statements or other information contained in any messages posted or transmitted by any third party are the responsibility of the author of that message and not of NorthernLife.ca. The fact that a particular message is posted on or transmitted using this web site does not mean that NorthernLife.ca has endorsed that message in any way or verified the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message. We encourage visitors to NorthernLife.ca to report any objectionable content by using the "report abuse" link found in the comments section of this web site.

41 Comments

  • OMG!!!!!!!!

    I've been edited & deleted :-(

    I must be nicer. I must be nicer. I must......ah shat!

  • coherse, universituhy, edumucashin
    Yup, hook line and sinker.

  • TRA LA LA LA..Going down to Toronto....I'm a world traveller..TRA LA LA LALA LA..I'm so educated..LALALA..I own many bizzness that aren't unionized LA LA LALA LA ....going south to have southern fried spam sandwich's as brain food!TRA LA LA LALA LA!...Ten thousand HAHAHAHA

  • Let me explain something to all you 'EINSTEINS".There are 14000 retired miners.Most of them have spouses and children AND grandchildren........which put mining families into the TENS OF THOUSANDS.

    Now,compare that to the four or five Vale puppets on this site,and you have?????????

  • Noof, dont you remember the old noofie telling us about the codfish. Der were millions and millions, almost a tousand.

  • Well,'gentlemen',the 'tens of thousands'was an exageration or euphemism to prove a point.Omg,what ever made me think you people would ever 'get' that?

    Ok,let me speak in 'simple'terms,so you little boys understand.There are lots and lots of retired miners in this city who support the workers.Is that better?

    Just curious,'noofus',Fera is 60 years old with roughly 35 years service.Is there anything abnornal about retiring at that age with that seniority?.Of course,being a little Vale puppet makes it difficult for you to understand

  • I watched a Get Smart tv show on line the other day...
    This claim by Delawhen reminds me of the line Maxwell Smart used to use when his claims weren't believed....Went something like this:
    "There are tens of thousands of retired miners..
    Hmmm......You don't believe me????
    Would you believe tens of hundreds of retired miners?
    No? Hmmmmmm
    Would you believe 2 union execs, a USW staff member and 3 stewards?"

  • Snicker @ Dela....Tens of thousands...HAHAHA!..Oh my!..Maybe you should lay off the fried spam sandwichs...

  • Delaware... "there are tens of thousands of retired miners in this city" is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Numeracy and communication skills must not have been part of your university studies (or high school for that matter)because the number of INCO/Vale retirees is approximately 14,000, not a multiple of 'tens of thousands'. Furthermore, I can assure you that not all retirees supported the strike, just as not all members supported the strike. Even if they had, that is at most 17,000 people. How many people do you think live in Sudbury?
    Unions today are like blacksmiths... at one time, everybody needed one and they were a good thing... today, they're more like teets on a bull moose... not much good for anything.

  • @ Delawhat
    The reason certain people blindly supported the union in this foolish strike which, besides costing a number of young couples their homes, and many single income earners their toys is that many like you lived their entire lives in Sudbury depending on the fading memories of 80 year olds on the importance of the union.

    We'll see the results of the unions "Day in Court" now that the company will be able to introduce evidence.
    A reasonable person would wonder why the union wanted the Board to prevent Vale from introducing their evidence.
    Can you imagine the results to the justice system if defendants couldn't introduce evidence?

    Now that Fera has taken his fat package (lol) out of the union picture, Goonion better describes the USW under the new executive.

  • Are you referring to the 'tens of thousands' that came out to your rallies?

    Because, we Sudburians must have missed that.............

    Keep diggin' and Dancing Deluh.

  • "Noofie,i and the majority'??????????????..........only in your mind,my little friend.

    Anyone who has lived in Sudbury their whole lives,myself included,know there are tens of thousands of retired miners in this city.The fact you think the 'majority' is on your side...........exists only in your head

  • Keep twisting and trying the revisionist history Deluh.
    Nickel at that time floated between $5 and $7 a pound. You can't use a spot low price that was NOT SUSTAINED at $4 to base your entire house of cards on. Just as you now won't quote $11 a pound as the current price when it short spiked there in the spring.

    Bottom line, and you and 6500 finally realized this, and the Ontario Operations are very cost heavy. The workforce has a mediocre output and is antagonistic. The ore is getting deeper and more expensive to process. Changes must be made to sustain production into the future. A future which is good for Vale, which means JOBS and security for the Steelworkers. Especially during a RECESSION.

    Noofie, I, and the majority of Sudburians have been telling you these truths all along. 12 months of it. And now in chorus saying "We told you so!"
    If anyone didn't display common sense and weren't taken seriously it certainly wasn't us. A year of lost wages. Debts and respect that can never be recovered? - Yeah, we know who made sense in the end of it all.

  • 'Jaw',i have no problem discussing the issues with you.Im sure we both have valid points.However,please dont be swayed by the rantings of Philly.Its so obvious he is a vale 'stoolie',any four year old can see thru him,ie......how many times has he repeated the 44 million 'loss',TWO years ago,when nickel was $ 4 a lbs.

    Give it up,Phil..........anyone with an ounce of common sense DOESNT take you seriously

  • Again we see how the false propaganda from the union executive/bargaining unit still has a grip on some of the union lemmings.
    2020 took a Fair Deal. They thought for themselves. Refused to fall into the trap of Gerard's Global Union Legacy Project. They saw the bad economy and how the CAW took huge concessions and job cuts. How their fellow Canadians and Sudburians were suffering. They didn't believe the 1/2 told truths and disinformation from the Steelworker brass.
    THAT's why they took a good deal without throwing away a year of their lives, respect, and community support.

    Look at the facts jawer. Not the rhetoric from Deluh. 3,000 members voted to strike based on what they were TOLD were the facts.
    Bottom line, it took a year for them to come to their senses and nearly cause a mutiny that made the Bargaining Unit come clean. 87% took the Fair Deal. Nearly the same ones offered 3 times earlier.

    PS - Vale's GLOBAL profits are doing fine. The Ontario Operations lost $44 million in the fiscal 1/4 under the old 6500 deal. Don't get fooled into comparing apples (global) vs. oranges (local) losses. - Lumping efficient and profitable operations with cost heavy local ones is more union misdirection. Sudbury is not a union charity workplace.

  • Well 'Jaw',i agree,it was a tough 12 months.However,many of my family members were and are miners.They have gone thru many strikes to establish the gains they enjoy.

    Remember,the union is the 3000 workers.They decided to strike,NOT the 'leaders'.They could have done like local 2020,and NOT listened to the executive.

    As much as some people are critical of the union,imagine what wages and benefits would be like WITHOUT one.

    P.S. As much as Vale 'cried poor',just watch the news in the upcoming year and see their profits

  • Del, of course 6500 was within its rights to go on strike. Nobody can believe they did in the economic conditions.
    And then they were kept out by the 'leaders' of this debacle.
    And tell us what they gained? Besides learning what it was like to go +12 months without a payday.

  • Well,Northern Guy,if you would have called me 'delaware' instead of insulting me by calling me 'Delaweird',perhaps i may have been more civil towards you.

    I realize your 'pal' 'Noof/Phil',takes great pride in insulting everyone in this town,but obviously,he has established a nasty trend.

    P.S I have expressed my opinions MANY times.I have repeatedly asserted the miners were well within their rights to strike for a better contract,WITHOUT being constantly belittled and ridiculed.I would like to think i would accord YOU the same right.Unfortunately,some people think THEY have the right to dictate whether someone should strike or not.No one should try and control other people's lives

  • Delaware... for someone who claims to be 'university educated' you sure seem to often be confused. I'm not a journalist and if you bother to read the above editor's note, you'd find that you don't need to be one to express an opinion on the subject at hand... something you never do.
    As for my avatar, the answer is NO... that's not really me. I just thought the avatar would cause some fool to ask me if that was really me.
    So tell me, when you see camoman's avatar, do you also think that's his real picture?
    Your thought process explains a lot.

  • Another piece of 'intelligent' journalism from Northern Guy.Just curious.........is that 'handsome'guy in yellow YOU? Sure would explain a lot

  • This case will be nothing less than precedent setting...
    No matter which way it goes...
    The workers MIGHT get a little more rights or the workers rights will remain unchanged...
    Only time will tell...
    .
    The old saying that "Truth will sometimes breed hatred" is true... (especially in this forum)

  • The Deluh Dance continues.
    Deny, deflect. Ignore then insult.

    Nothing in her comments pertains to the issues. Just more anti-corporate rhetoric wrapped with tired union propaganda. The same BS that fooled members into thinking they had a chance striking during a recession. Where they lost tens of millions working under the status-quo contract. Die hard lemmings to the end.........

    Bottom line here is Fraser is trying the same ploy again! Crying foul over fictitious rights violations and hurt feelings as a foundation for another anti-Vale crusade.

    QUOTE: “,thats what i kept hearing.If im wrong,then may i apologize to that young lady.” - Deluh.

    That’s some way to base a position. From ‘what you hear’ in union generated rumours. Just like the same disinformation strategy was used to guide the rank-and-file to strike. Brilliant. Make some propaganda up. Then make a ½ apology once the damage is done. (Just in case, right?)

    There should be some very nervous members down at the Steelhall now that Vale gets to defend itself against 6500’s house of cards.
    Bottom line is that a union is wasting more of its time and money. AND the taxpayers money to defend 8 punks. Strings being pulled by one that’s on the executive. Talk about a conflict of interest.
    How much more humiliation and lost any remaining public support can they endure? A once proud union has been run into the ground. This will be the coupe de grace.

  • Well,'baygirl',as i stated,thats what i kept hearing.If im wrong,then may i apologize to that young lady.

    Btw,Northern Guy,thank you for the insult calling me 'delaweird'.Of course,you know what they say.Intelligent people express ideas.Dumb people just hurl insults.Need i say more?

  • Delaware....please double check your facts. You couldn't be more wrong about your "extended maternity leave" theory.

    Better luck next time, though.

  • Delaware.....you will NEVER sway the ANTI 6500 windbags opinion, they are too wrappedup in what the great vale has to say!

  • this whole strike and what took place was farcial. bad faith bargaing the union claims. what a joke. membership was not imformed about the nasty eight for so long isnt that bad faith barbaining on there part.
    this process takes so long then at the end of it what do you hear both sides will put so much spin on outcome no one will understand what they are saying. call it a draw and stop wasting taxpayers money

  • "we are delighted that Vale will have to face the scrutiny of the Board, in public, and try to explain away its arrogance and disrespect for the USW and for its own employees’ rights,” said USW District 6 director Wayne Fraser, in the press release."

    6500 just doesn't get it. The OLRB is not interested in the least in issues pertaining to "arrogance and disrespect" between two feuding parties. The OLRB will only rule on issues that impact labour law and I don't believe 6500 will be able to present a relevant argument to indict bad faith against Vale or force re-instatement of the fired 9.

  • Im just curious..........watched the news tonite,and vale's spokeperson is a woman.I kept hearing during the strike,that 'little stevie ball'did all the talking,while 'all talk no action' Bartolucci's daughter was sent on extended maternity leave to protect the mpp's image.

    In return,Ricky stayed 'neutral'.Now,apparently the daughter is back in the saddle.And some of you clowns have the audacity to make fun of the Ndp???? Wonder if the Liberals may be just a bit short on ethics

  • "“We have a just cause provision in our collective agreement,”
    ==============================
    Oh so smart. You didnt have a CBA in place stupid.

  • Vale have had their "ducks in a row" from the getgo... I'll wager anyone that they'll also win their own BBF case against the mighty USW of A in VB... talk about Karma... the good ol' boyz haven't seen anything yet!!!!
    It's obvious to me that 6500 just hasn't learned anything... at least the 'leaders' haven't and they never will. The silent majority is too complacent and/or scared of the thugs to take control of the union, and that ultimately will cost them more jobs.
    I've made many predictions regarding this strike/power struggle and my accuracy is remarkable... so I'll make another one now. I'll wager that by the time this contract expires, 6500 membership will be fewer than 1800.

  • Vale surely has their "ducks in a row" with respect to the B in BF accusations as well as the fired 9. They will have good reasonable arguments and facts when they make their presentation to the OLRB. The USW......probably not so much. The argument "do what we want just because we say so" won't hold water with the OLRB or in fact any other place outside of the Old Inco. Hopefully 6500 has done alot of growing up in the past year and realizes what the real world is all about.

  • Well, well. Did 6500 expect anything else?
    "Oh gee, this is not a democratic country so we will just tell the OLRB what we want and that will be all that is needed"
    Ooops, didnt get your way. Due process will move forward.
    And as noted, where are the 'leaders' again? Still on holiday I expect.

  • Exactly purplereign.

    The USWofA continued along with their mindset that they are somehow special. Entitled to have only their side taken. That their word is gospel. That ignorant thought pattern is what mislead their members into a year-long, wasted strike. The start of this whole mess. Entitled to a raise and no cuts during a recession. Where the status quo cost their division tens of millions in quarterly losses.
    Every mis-step taken by the leadership of 6500 has been met by defeat. Egos and arrogance from Gerard in Pittsburgh, down to the brass here in Sudbury. How much more money and time has to be wasted before the members again say, "Enough!"
    This fair decision torpedoes their plan to derail the hearing to their agenda. Panic should be setting in down at the hall right about now.

  • The OLRB ruling is on their web site - http://www.olrb.gov.on.ca/Decision/3033-09-U.pdf.

    The following is quoted from the end of the report:

    "Is the evidence which Vale seeks to lead with respect to the reasons it maintained its position to impasse relevant and admissible evidence?

    "38. The answer to this question is found in our reasons answering the second question. Determination of whether Vale maintaining to impasse its position of refusing to agree to just cause arbitration for employees discharged while on strike was patently unreasonable or even objectively unreasonable requires consideration of any justification offered by Vale for taking this position. The evidence which Vale seeks to lead is thus relevant and admissible.

    "Direction
    39. In its submissions, Vale indicated that it agreed with many of the material facts pled by the USW. A hearing will be held at which the USW will be entitled to call evidence to prove the facts with which Vale did not agree. Vale will be entitled to call evidence in response and to lead evidence as to the reasons why it took the position that it did. The USW will be entitled to call evidence in reply."

    Apparently, the USW wanted a decision rendered without Vale presenting evidence to bolster their case. The OLRB has decided Vale should present evidence before a final decision is made.

  • Wishful thinking Melonbob... I mean RoberHood. The OLRB is not an arbitrator. The above story makes it clear for those who can read that the union did not want Vale to present any evidence to the board with regards to the dismissals... it was the union's hope that the board would rule that the dismissed employees' cases be heard by an arbitrator. Instead, the board will hear the evidence against these people and rule on whether the dismissals were justified or not. Bye bye to the nine amigos.

  • I think waht the NL is "trying" to say is the arbitration hearing for the fired 8 will go ahead.

  • Another nail in the union coffin and as usual, the union leaders have nothing to say. Speaking of nails in coffins, has anybody heard anything about the decertification vote in Voisey Bay?

  • @weston:

    Sudbury sucks and cant sustain with Vale, Sudbury will suck and wouldn't be able to sustain without Vale. Either way, sudbury is destined to become another Elliot lake.

    Quite frankly, I would love to see the union go up in smoke. I would love it even more if everyone from Vale got axed in the near future and a complete overhaul is done. It would be sweet justice to see all these arrogant people who take their wage for granted end up flipping burgers. Then lets see how much they think they were 'underpayed'.

  • The headline of this article in no represents the information presented in the Article presented.

    The article itself only says that a hearing for something will happen.

    Lawfully the application for the contravention of the LRA (failure to bargain in good faith) is now null and void since the labour dispute is now settled.

    What this article refers too is beyond me??

  • Great "leadership" you have there, USW kids! LOL
    Chalk up another win for justice, sanity, and reason, when Vale wins this one, too.
    Add another one to the long list of USW losses, embarassment, stupidity, waste, foolishness, and thuggery.
    Karma.

  • Another setback for the union. Add this ruling and the imminent Bad Faith loss to a long line of embarrassing losses by 6500.

    The rank-and-file must look at their leadership for the poor decision to strike. The injunction losses. The millions wasted from the union's bank account. Workers criminally charged and legally fired. Now this.

    A charade of a Bad Faith case where their own sister local, 2020 took nearly the SAME FAIR DEAL 6500 and Port Colbourne eventually accepted. All with an overwhelming 87%+ acceptance. 2020 didn't strike. They and Vale bargained faithfully. 12 months wasted for egos at 6500.

    Now Vale has been granted equal standing at the OLRB table. So much for the Steelworkers warping their version of the truth.
    Fera slid out by taking his pension. Time for Gerard and Fraser to step up and take their fair blame.

FacebookTwitterRSSVideophotoNewsletterMobile