Conversation transcript: Olivier and 'Pat'

Greetings and small talk.

Pat Sorbara :0:35 “So how are you doing, I know it’s…
Andrew Olivier 0:37- 1:52 “I’m doing good, I’m doing great to tell you the truth, Pat. I told the Premier, and I spoke with Gerry yesterday, that I’d give you guys a heads up on what my thoughts are and what I’m gonna do, moving forward I had a really good talk with my family and my team last night, and my position is still the same… I’m looking to seek that nomination. I think lots of times in life, you step aside on opportunities and it’s happened quite a bit to myself, and I think I’d be doing myself a disservice, and all the people that have supported me, really […] not just the past year and the campaign, Pat, but my whole life. And I appreciate the Premier’s position, and you know, speaking with her last night, and I’m the type of fellow who likes to get all the information he can to make a good sound decision, and hopefully we can keep going with this, and that’s basically where my mind’s at right now.”

Pat 1:55-2:18 “So Andrew let me ask you this… I mean… of course you recognize, then, the position that we’re gonna find ourselves in here, right? Where she’s gonna have to make a decision around the appointment, right? Versus letting this go ahead.”

Andrew 2:19-2:21 “Yeah no, I completely understand, for sure.”

Pat 2:22- 2:52 “So I guess I don’t… like you’re a relatively, a pretty young guy, with lots and lots of options before you, […] and I was in the room when, and I couldn’t hear your side of it, but I could hear hers, and I think what she was trying to say to you is that […] this is in no way an attempt to sort of say we would never want you to do this or be a part of the team before or after or whatever, but that maybe not this time given this very extraordinary scenario that’s come up.”

Andrew 2:52 2:54 “Right right, no I understand

Pat 2:54 – 2:57 “And you’ll probably admit it’s a pretty extraordinary scenario.”

Andrew 2:57 – 2:59 “I… yeah.”

Pat 2:59-3:02 “A federal MP is prepared to cross the floor and do this.”

Andrew 3:02-3:04 “Sure sure, no I understand.”

Pat 3:05-3:12 “He’s a well-liked guy who will pretty much give our chances of winning, our chances of winning back the riding go way up in that scenario, right?”

Andrew 3:12 - 3:32 “I uh, I tend to understand the position and, you know, respectfully I agree that he’s a great politician and I completely… I like Glenn as a person and he’s done well for the community, I have no doubts of that at all, Pat.”

Pat 3:32- 3:35 “So let me just finish where I’m going then.”

Andrew 3:34 “Sure.”

Pat 3:35- 3:50 So I’m saying on that basis, right, and now you’ve been directly asked by the leader and the Premier to make a decision to step aside to allow Glenn to have the […] opportunity uncontested.”

Andrew 351-352 “Sure.”

Pat 3:53 – 4:57 “So I’m just saying to you I guess that I think you’ve got a long road ahead for you on politics on many fronts and that sometimes we’re asked to make, to do those tough things in politics, and that you’re being asked this time to do that, so I just wanna make sure that you have actively considered the fact that… this is being asked of you, and it is hard, […] many people have looked at this now and have come to the belief that this is the best option for the riding, so you’re being asked to do the… favour I guess to make the sacrifice this time, and that also can go a long way, in terms of opening up options.. like in terms of being part of a party right? This is part of a party exercise that happens often… more often than you might think, in terms of us calling up folks and sort of saying “you know, this time the situation’s developed, will you be willing this time to take the back seat and let us see what develops going forward.””

4:57 – 5:29 Example about don valley west candidate stepping aside, dogs barking.
Pat 5:30 5:44 “I’m not saying it’s gonna be punitive, or anything, don’t get me wrong, I’m just saying in the context of being a member of a party that we’re all asked to do these things sometimes, and I just want to make sure that you balance that out with the decision to say “no, I’m gonna do this no matter what.”

Andrew 5:45-5:46 “Well…”

Pat 5:46 5:53 “And force the Premier to move to the appointment process if that’s the only option available for her to move this forward.”

Andrew 5:54 – 6:45 “I completely understand, Pat, you know and you’re right that these things come up and I […] understand that this is what I’m being asked to do, my position was to do the same, and again, I want to work with you guys, but I want to work as the candidate and like you said, and what Gerry had said, the Premier has to make her decision. If she needs to make that decision, to do what she has to do, I’ll respect it, don’t get me wrong, and that’s just where we’ll be and we understand the optics of it and whatnot… so really Pat, and I wouldn’t be true to myself if I said that I didn’t really want this […]”

Pat 6:49- 7:26 “Nobody’s asking you to say that you don’t really want it, we know you really want it, and you know, and I said to her after I was up there before this all developed, right, that […] I had no doubt that in a head-to-head you would take it. Because one, you knew what you were doing, you had the head start on memberships and three I think you really wanted it more than Marianne, but you know, but then this has developed. So it’s not a question of whether we know that you want it, she’s asking you to agree to put that aside for now.”

Andrew 7:29 -7:30 “Yes… and…”

Pat 7:30 – 8:00 “Because […] how is this going to play out, because she moves to the nomination and, […] if she decides, and I think that she’s going to, to move ahead with the appointment, then what? You say “I’m unhappy and I’m not gonna help, I’m no longer a liberal”? What’s the next step then? […] You think because you’re not stepping back she’s gonna say “okay we’re gonna have a race”?

Andrew 8:01- 8:25 “I would hope that that information would weigh on her decision, I would think, but you know, at that point, if this is imminent is what you’re telling me, then I’ll have to make a moral decision to continue to support the way I have and go from there… but as it stands, I mean I’m just giving you all the information Pat…”

Pat 8:25- 8:55 “But look, let’s keep this… let’s talk this through a little more, and I’m saying this because… you know we all feel very badly, I feel badly too, because I was up there and we had that discussion, and I was articulating to a lot of people about how we can do this, in the winter, in your circumstances, like we were even talking about an RV and stuff like that, maybe, like we could park on certain corners […] like I don’t want you to think… like we weren’t all developing that concept but… you know…”

8:56- 9:48 Pat Sorbara’s personal story about getting beaten when she ran against a popular candidate and never trying again, instead went to the “back room”

Pat 9:49 – 10:08 “I just want you to think of the long play here, because what for what now would become three, four weeks of angst or whatever we’re up against, then you could still end up in a place where you’re not the candidate. And I guess what I’m saying is that […] you’ve talked to your family and you’ve talked to your supporters, you really believe there was one in the room who would turn to you and say otherwise?”

Andrew 10:09 – 10:51 “Actually there was some solid conversations both ways, […] my girlfriend was, you know, was at first, was quite […] adamant on saying “hey, you’re up against a real big challenge here, and this person Glenn is a great candidate and a great guy” […] and I understand that, Pat. And in a contested nomination, I’m sure he would put up a really, really good fight, and unfortunately, I mean, that’s not an option… for…”
Pat 10:51 -11:00 “but it’s more than that, like it’s not just, like that, “I Andrew Olivier am making the decision to contest” it’s “I, Andrew Olivier, have decided to say “no” to the Premier”.

Andrew 11:01 – 11:02 “Uhh… well..”

Pat 11:03 – 11:06 “and by the way I’ve never… you’re like the third person I’ve ever heard her even ask this of.”

Andrew 11:07 “Oh really.”

Pat 11:08 – 11:29 “So she feels very strongly, this is a big, big step for her to make this ask, and for her to personally get on the phone with you in that way, that’s just not her style […] in fact she wanted to be the one to talk to you about it, and Gerry felt that she shouldn’t go in cold, so he felt he had to tell you first, he wanted to be part of that…”

Andrew 11:30 “Yeah.”

Pat 11:31 – 11:37 “But we had her on call because she said “I’m not letting him go overnight without hearing from me because I know how massive this ask is.””
Andrew 11:37 “Okay.”

Pat 11:39- 12:07 “So I mean, you need to get it into that context, and not, again, because she’s gonna be mad at you or anything, because she’s not, she’s gonna understand, but she’s then gonna do what she has to do in terms of what she believes is best, you know, for the riding, and she is quite desperate, desperate in a good way, to get that seat back. And you know, it feels like, while, others are getting affected, including Marianne, but you more so by far, but we’ve also had to tell Marianne, but that’s different because she wasn’t the last candidate that came within a thousand.”

Andrew 12:07 “Sure.”

Pat 12:08 – 12:33 “You know, we get that difference, don’t get me wrong, and she didn’t speak to Marianne, she’s only spoken to you, and she knows how hard the ask is, but she is asking you to do this for the party. But she’s saying, that’s why she said, “I hope we’re all standing together, and we need to find the longer terms” you know, “roles here”… not in Glenn’s shadow but in terms of your own voice.”

Andrew 12:33 – 12:50 “Okay. Well you know, and, Pat, this is… in light of the conversation we’re having now, I mean again, this is more information than I… I didn’t think we’d be going this far. And this is good information to have… um, maybe”

Pat 12:51 -12:54 “You mean going this far as per whether or not she’s prepared to go to an appointment?”

Andrew 12:54 – 13:00 “Well… I mean I heard her vision, and I’m not saying that I didn’t respect it, at all..”

Pat 13:01 – 1302 [Inaudible]

Andrew 13:03 – 14:04 “No, no, and I know, and I appreciate that, and you know, like I said, I’m a person who gathers information, and you know, talking with Gerry yesterday I was feeling quite strongly, and talking with the Premier, that, you know, this is what I want to do… but I mean, talking to you now, you know, maybe we can work this out. But again, […] and I’m sure you guys need a decision very very soon here, so Pat what I’m saying is as a candidate, be it now, or in the future, and it’s just basically my last little statement here, is I felt very strongly about, you know, the party, and working with you guys, and I still feel that way, and you know I am a little bit of a rookie here, and these types of asks and information that I’m receiving, is new information to me, right?”

Pat 14:05 – 14:15 “No no, it’s… you’re being terrific. Still, um… I’ve heard the premier do some tough calls, not in relation to candidates, but on other things-”

Andrew 14:16 “Sure.”

Pat 14:17 – 14:52 “-somebody she knew very well that wasn’t gonna get a job she wanted, and decided that she wanted to tell that person herself, and […] that person was extremely nasty in return and, you know she absorbed that […] she got off the phone and she said that that was a really hard call, but he was really fair and decent about it, and she appreciated that you heard him out. So […] I feel good about this conversation ‘cause she got off the phone, feeling like you were still friends, where she was afraid you were gonna be really mad at her, and I said “he’s not gonna be mad AT you, he’s gonna be mad at the process” and she said “no he’d be right to be mad at me because I’m asking him to do this.”

Andrew 14:53 15:40 “No, yeah, and you know I was upset and I felt a little… you know I liked having the conversation with the Premier, she’s… you know as I said I’ve got more than… ample and oodles of respect and hope to even aspire to be, you know, like her in the future… and Pat, maybe […] if it’s gonna come up to getting nasty and ugly, that’s not my way of going about this, so [stammering]”

Pat 15:41 15:50 “So let’s just, before, before, let’s just think about the other ways that you could, and I’m not, you don’t… and I was hesitant to go here because I don’t want to look that I’m trying to suggest that… there’s a consolation prize.

Andrew 15:50 “Mhmm”

Pat 15:51 16:40 “But I heard you say […] “I wanna be a boss, I wanna be at the table” and that’s what she was trying to you, is that “I want you to have a role.” But I said to her, I don’t know what else he might be interested in, you know, if you are specifically interested in stuff like the accessibility advocacy or disability advocacy like there is stuff being formed in committees and stuff that we can give you a voice on, if for example if you wanted to be an executive of the Ontario liberal party, and that would give you a voice at the party level, and at a different level. If there were other things that you’re particularly interested in that is within her realm to make you part of, then she is more than prepared to do that. Because she said, I don’t want him to just -”

Andrew 16:40 “Walk away”

Pat 16:40 – 16:51“-she really admires what you did in the last round, so again we didn’t wanna pigeonhole it or say “oh well” [stammering] that’s what she meant by “let’s have that conversation.”

Andrew 16:52 “Sure.”

Pat 16:53 – 17:10“And figure out how we keep you active and that, at the table through all of that, right, like that now has to be overhauled, so I said, it was me who said, you know, “I know we’re gonna be looking for new people to run up for the executive at the AGM, in probably, in late April.”

Andrew 17:10 “Right.”

Pat 17:11- 17:33 “and is willing to go on the executive, someone who meets with the premier regularly and has lots of input into how the party runs and operates and you know even the [inaudible] campaign so there are lots of other avenues that we can look at. I don’t know, did you talk to her once about you wanted to do more in the area of advocacy for-“

Andrew 17:33 “well, I’m actually currently on the accessibility committee for OLP, we started that…”

Pat 17:40 – 17:44 “Okay yes, that’s right, yeah maybe that’s what it is, but you know we are, we also have that happening at the government level.”

Andrew 17:45-17:52 “Yeah, this was what, basically just a subcommittee, you know, dealing with a specific problem, but I understand, for sure.”

Pat 17:53 – 18:08 “Yeah like, But that’s what she was saying, if we’re forming more, and we are, and there’s some stuff coming out around different… boards and committees that are gonna be formed around doing more in that area [stammering]”

Andre18:08 – 18:30 “Sure, I guess what, you know, I’d be willing to […] now that you’ve brought it up, you know, if I do do this, if I’m working beside Glenn, I would, you know, I’d prefer to be with that fellow, I mean, he would be someone to mentor off of…”
Pat 18:31 “With Glenn?”

Andrew 18:31 – 18:36 “Yeah for sure, I mean that would be, I guess this is a discussion I would have to have with him.”

Pat 18:37-18:43 “Well no, I mean uhhh… okay so I’m gonna be totally like… you mean in his constit office or something like that?”

Andrew 18:43 -18:45“Sure, sure, and-“

Pat 18:45 -19:35 “Okay so, we talked about that, and I think Glenn would actually be very open to that, but again everyone was… I don’t wanna, that’s what the premier said, like, “I don’t want him to think that he has to be in Glenn’s shadow” […] so I said to her, “Premier, I think that IS something we should discuss, because like when they’re in their ridings, those are the guys… or sorry like, when the MPPs are at Queen’s park, it is the constituency staff”, as she well knows, “who are out at all the meetings who do all the community advocacy, who… is exactly, that maybe that is part of what he wants to do” and actually Glenn said that a week or so ago, when we were chatting. And nobody, like again, nobody wanted to sort of say “oh but here’s your consolation prize”, right? But if you’re open to those discussions… there are many people, you know, willing to have them. And I believe that is something you and Glenn could discuss, and I believe you would be open to it.”

Andrew 19:35 – 19:44 “Okay, well, you know… like I said this is all new information I’m receiving-“

Pat 19:44 – 19:45 “I know, I know, I know, I’m sorry –“

Andrew 19:46 – 20:15 “No, no, don’t apologize Pat, and you know, It’s something where I don’t consider it a consolation prize, and […] you know all these options are great. I currently am working, and this is something that I’m proud of doing, so it may be something where I’m your first suggestion, you know, doing some stuff with advocacy, with the AODA, and that legislature,”

Pat 20:15 “Yep.”

Andrew 20:16 “So you know what […] if you cou-“

Pat 20:20 – 20:56 “That we don’t have to decide overnight, right? There’s lots of options that we can sit down and talk about, I mean we’re all gonna be back up in Sudbury many times, and we can sit down and, you know, and talk that through. We should have the broader discussion about what is it that you’d be most interested in doing, and then decide what shape that could take, that would fulfill that is what I’m getting at, whether it’s a full time or a part time job in a constit office, whether it is appointments, supports, or commissions, whether it is also going on the exec, there are lots of… but I would just, we would just need to better understand what is it that you most want to do.”

Andrew 20:55 “yeah.”

Pat 20:55 “Sort of, thing like, being MPP is the thing you MOST wanna do, but what is the next couple things you would…”

Andrew 21:03 – 22:12 [Laughter] “yeah. No, and when you go in for a job interview, you really don’t come out thinking “if I don’t get it, what other possibilities”… so uh, again Pat, I’m gonna leave you with that, and if I could tell you right now, if I could speak with Glenn, if he’s willing to talk to me, and then I could chat with him and give him the final “yay” and you know, from there […] I don’t want to , as we say up here, “make bad friends” and the English is poor but it’s basically building relationships and not crumbling the before… while they’re in the great establishment phase. And, you know, I’m an honourable person, so I will, when I do talk to Glenn, if he could give me a chat- a call, and I’ll talk to him, and we can go from there.”

Reiteration, small talk, farewells.