Vagnini: former CAO's comments worth an investigation

Ward 2 Coun. Michael Vagnini says comments by former interim CAO Bob Johnston should be investigated by an outside, independent body to determine whether they have any validity.

Vagnini was one of three city councillors willing to speak about Johnston's comments, which appeared in a story Thursday on NorthernLife.ca. Johnson described a toxic atmosphere at Tom Davies Square, characterized by negativity and paranoia from the mayor's office.

"For the most part, it was the communication and the overbearing, critical, negativity from the mayor's office to staff,” he said. “That's primarily where it rests. I dealt with it on a daily basis with the mayor's office."

He was removed as CAO in late September following a dispute with Mayor Brian Bigger over the fire department. An increase of $800,000 in overtime costs, as well as significant increases in sick leave and grievances were health and safety issues, Johnston said, and he couldn't in good conscience ignore them.

Bigger instructed him not to deal with it, he said, and when he refused, he was removed.

In a media scrum Friday, the mayor disputed Johnston's comments.

"I would never tell anybody to ignore health and safety concerns,” Bigger said. “The negotiations between the fire department and the city are something that I would not carry on in public.

"I think Mr. Johnston is a passionate individual. We put him in place as an interim CAO in a temporary assignment. The most important thing is we're always acting in the best interests of the citizens. We're an organization that negotiates in good faith. That's something we'll stick to and hold true to at all times."

Vagnini said he has no first-hand knowledge of the issues Johnston raised. That's because he spends the vast majority of his time in his Lively-area ward, holding town hall meetings and meeting with residents.

“Because we are in a part-time position, we are not (at city hall) all the time,” he said. “My office is actually located in the Lively area, on Main Street in Lively, so I'm more out here dealing with constituents issues where we actually go an visit them and so on."

So Vagnini said he's not sure what the truth is, because he isn't at city hall often enough to get a feel for what's going on.

"There's two ways of looking at it,” he said. “Just because (Johnston) is going out, he's carrying an ax to grind. Or two, there's some validity to what he's saying. So when he talks about fire, and the different issues surrounding that, I think we have to do our due diligence and do an investigation on that."

And when it comes to the work culture of “fear” Johnston describes, Vagnini said the best way to get to the bottom of the matter is to conduct an unbiased investigation.

"If it's true that there's all these issues that are there, and people are afraid to say something, then you bring in a third party from outside to examine the situation," he said. “Anytime anybody brings up anything, there has to be some concern and we always have to check out the validity of that. That's just the way it is. You can't just assume things based on somebody's comments. So the right thing to do is find out exactly what is going on, and deal with it accordingly.

"Sometimes you can look at it from the inside, or you can bring external people from an outside source to do an audit. I think that's probably the best way."

Vagnini said he hasn't determined exactly who the investigating body should be.

Ward 7 Coun. Mike Jakubo has dealt with staff extensively during budget talks as chair of the finance and administration committee. He said he was surprised to read Johnston's comments, and hasn't witnessed any of the negativity he spoke about.

"The first I heard of the things that were in the article was when I read the article," Jakubo said. “I can honestly tell you I've had nothing but good working relationships with senior management team and staff on an array of issues. As finance chair, I'm involved in a lot of meetings in regards to the budget and dealing with staff a lot and we always seem to work very well together, come up with good results.

“To me, the staff I've been working with are more excited than anything."

He disagreed with Johnston's contention that the stream of senior managers leaving the city is a sign of problems at city hall. Instead, Jakubo said it's a normal part of the modern workplace.

"In today's age, I don't think anybody makes a lifetime of any kind of job,” he said. “I think it's more natural progression than anything."

He also doubts there are health and safety concerns in the fire department, because the Sudbury Professional Fire Fighters Association would have brought them to light. And if costs were out of line, staff in emergency services would have brought it to council's attention.

"I guess I would have more expected that if there was really an issue with health and safety, that one of the first groups that would have been voicing concern would have been the firefighters union," Jakubo said.

"And as a councillor, I would be expecting that our emergency services department would be highlighting (cost concerns) to council – if it's that dollar figure, and it is at that level of concern."

Ward 1 Coun. Mark Signoretti echoed Jakubo's sentiments on dealing with staff. He said the last year has been extremely positive.

"You know what? I haven't personally noticed anything to that effect,” Signoretti said. “I think council, staff, administration were all working together. I just see a lot of positive stuff happening and it's all good stuff."

He said we live in a free country, so Johnston has a right to speak his mind.

"So, he chose to speak his mind,” he said. “As far as I'm concerned, everything is good. We're at a year anniversary, and things couldn't be better with council, the mayor and staff. Everybody is working hard and everybody is doing the job they were elected to do."

When reached by telephone Friday, Ward 8 Coun. Al Sizer declined to speak on Johnston's comments, as did Ward 9 Coun. Deb McIntosh. As of Friday, the rest of city council had not returned messages seeking comment.